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  1. nightowl is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/26/2008 5:57pm


     Style: Koryu Budo, Shooto

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Supplementing escapes

    So here's my deal (and yeah, I put up a lot of questions....too many for sure)

    The ground teaching at the kodokan is alright, but a lot of things aren't covered. You can win newaza matches by pin so tapping someone out isn't needed, and furthermore before 5th kyu you only are shown kasa gatame, kuzure kasa gatamae, and yoko shiho gatamae. Thus if someone gets you in side control they aren't going to move.

    I like telling long stories so you can skip this part

    So far resistance drilling with newaza has been trying to hold or escape from a pin in 30 seconds, however the other night the sensei (the instructor varies by the day) had us do a 'randori', and to my horror the two people I was paried up with were both a little over 200 lbs. and one is almost half a foot shorter than me (short and stocky guys are no fun). It was fairly chaotic with both of the other guys standing up and on the last guy me reverting to pulling guard to buy some time as he was quite agressive in getting his scarf hold and was stacking and slamming me (again, chaotic).

    So anyway I had this guy who outwieghed me by 60+ lbs putting me in a tight scarf hold. Thing is, I have never seen an escape taught for ANY hold outside of trying to roll over your opponent (which only works if they are roughly the same weight).

    Back to the point
    Some holds I can shrimp out of and I can escape full mount, but having a huge guy holding on the the scarf hold for dear life has me stumped. Any advice or resources on this that I could practice on the mat?
    Last edited by nightowl; 5/29/2008 10:01pm at .
  2. Kentucky Fried Chokin is offline
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    Portrait of a BJJer as a Young Man

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    Posted On:
    5/26/2008 5:59pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Bridge and roll.
  3. Deadmeat is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/26/2008 6:21pm


     Style: Mixed Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Raz has th3 corr3ct. Bridge and roll is the best way. But you have to get a death grip on their rib cage. Try and crush it, then bridge and roll.

    However, under judo rules, you don't necessarily need to escape. Hook his leg (the one closer to your legs) with yours, and get "toketa" (hold/pin broken).

    Once you get that leg hooked, you can try to take your opponent's back if you want, but in SHiai, you shouldn't have to, as you would be stood back up.

    Otherwise, there is the "backdoor" exit strategy - turn in towards tori, and work your arm free, while trying to get face-down. If you can sort of shrug your way out from under their arm, and successfully free your arm, you've escaped. You end up turtling, which isn't great, but you can be stood back up from there, or work defence for a while..

    Go to judoforum.com or something. There's a few threads about escaping osaekomi on there.
    Last edited by Deadmeat; 5/26/2008 6:23pm at .
  4. Kentucky Fried Chokin is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/26/2008 6:24pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ah, I forgot about the backdoor one. Also, when you bridge and roll them, make sure, like Deadmeat mentioned, to get a gable grip around their waist underneath the floating ring and plant your feet as close to them as possible when you explode to bridge and roll.
  5. nightowl is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/26/2008 9:41pm


     Style: Koryu Budo, Shooto

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Does bridge and roll work even if they have a huge weight advantage? I'll give it a shot next time.
  6. Deadmeat is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/26/2008 9:56pm


     Style: Mixed Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by nightowl
    Does bridge and roll work even if they have a huge weight advantage? I'll give it a shot next time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deadmeat
    Bridge and roll is the best way. But you have to get a death grip on their rib cage. Try and crush it, then bridge and roll.
    Just try crushing someone's floating ribs with a gable grip. Pay close attention to the way they shift their weight in response to that. Capitalise on their positional shifting to execute the bridge and roll. They should be slightly over-commited in the direction you are trying to roll them.
  7. Kentucky Fried Chokin is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/26/2008 10:14pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by nightowl
    Does bridge and roll work even if they have a huge weight advantage? I'll give it a shot next time.
    If they're too big you might have to bridge into them and slide the nearest knee underneath them which effectively loads their weight onto you, then immediately bridge in the other direction to revese them.
  8. Blue Negation is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/26/2008 11:20pm


     Style: Judo, Sub wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The crush-and-bridge isn't as effective if they're much bigger than you.

    My favored escape versus larger persons from kesa is the backdoor escape, but if that gets shut down:

    Get the bodylock

    shrimp out a bit so they drive their weight into you to try to compensate - you want their weight above you if you can manage it, not driving into your side/ribs

    Pendulum your legs hard while turning over your shoulder to reverse.

    It's similar to what Josh Barnett used to escape Monson's side control in their recent fight.
    YouTube - Sengoku Josh Barnett Vs Jeff Monson Pt2

    I find this to be a more powerful reversal than just bridging and rolling but really it works best if combined with it because you should use one or the other depending on how your opponent's weight is distributed but I'm not sure how to put into words what the difference really is.
  9. ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/27/2008 12:03pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think it's fair to add here that if someone has you in vanilla scarf hold under Judo rules, short of a BIG skill or size difference, you aren't getting out of it, all they have to do is hold you there for twenty seconds, they don't have to work a sub or set up striking and they have a Gi to clamp on to, so as long as they re-act with some semblance of intelligence to what it is your doing, you aren't getting out of there.

    A far better bet for Judo is to ensure that you don't get into that situation, you can turn turtle (Not a great solution) Use you hands to hold them out as they come in and try to regain guard or half guard, similarly you can leave an arm extended and hope they go for the arm bar as they enter sidew control which I would say odds are better on you escaping.

    Also as they enter into thehold, my personal favourite conter is to take the arm they are trying to put around your head and push it towards the mat as you yourself shrimp out, from there scramble to your knees and you may even be able to take their back.

    I'm aware those aren't great descriptions of techniques, my point is more that if they have you in kesa, your fairly stuffed under Judo rules so look to prevent them getting in to kesa before they have it locked in.
  10. nightowl is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/28/2008 3:44am


     Style: Koryu Budo, Shooto

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the input guys. I'm going to stay a bit after class and see if I can find some people to work with on these.
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