The Whoring of Kempo

**foxguitar** · Posted On: 7/10/2008 5:53pm

Ok the schools are East Coast Black Belt Academy Kenpo

White Tiger Kempo

**LI GUY 1** · Posted On: 7/10/2008 6:00pm

From what I have seen of White Tiger, no.

Have a look at AFC Kickboxing, it is more than kickboxing, they also have a self defense program to train with the kickboxing.

www.ringoffirekickboxing.com

It is in Middle Island.

**foxguitar** · Posted On: 7/10/2008 7:24pm

Originally Posted by LI GUY 1

From what I have seen of White Tiger, no.

Have a look at AFC Kickboxing, it is more than kickboxing, they also have a self defense program to train with the kickboxing.

www.ringoffirekickboxing.com

It is in Middle Island.

I know where that AFC is ,

what about the East Coast BB Academy Kenpo

and white Tiger has 10 dojos spread out .

**Ke?poFist** · Posted On: 7/10/2008 8:10pm

I taught at White Tiger. You have to get to black belt before they even begin to teach you how to fight. Which at that point, you mighta as well just taken up boxing or kickboxing for half the price for the last 4-7 years, and actually got a solid foundation in stand-up. They are affiliated with Kioto BJJ now (hence the name change from Kempo Karate to Kempo Mixed Martial Arts), which from what I hear has not translated into formal grappling classes with qualified instructors, but rather Kempo BB Instructors cross-training on the side, and then crappling with their students.

There are some really good people in the organization, and a couple talented fighters even, but as a whole I wouldn't wish their training and technique curriculum on my worst enemy.

**metalforlunch** · Posted On: 7/10/2008 9:01pm

Tom Ingargiola has a great kick-boxing record and has trained some good kick-boxers himself from everything I've seen. He's also next in line for Kempo-Jutsu Kai after Professor Ferreira (current guy who runs it). Prof. Ferreira seemed to me like a very legit instructor, and I don't think he would pick somebody like Master Ingargiola to inherit his system if he thought the guy was a slouch. My 2 cents.

**GIJoe6186** · Posted On: 7/10/2008 11:09pm

I know nothing about Ingargiola except he does Kempo, has kickboxers and does some grappling, but that doesnt mean you will be getting that.

As KempoFist said, no to white tiger. It's a horrible place, with some good guys, but you wont get any of that. Just like USSD Kempo, they're a bunch of dorks.

East Coast BB Academy looks ehh. Don't know anything besides watching their video on their site.

They chamber hands though, perform lots of kata and one step drills it looks like and the sparring is very compliant.

This doesnt mean you have to find a school that has balls to the wall sparring every night, hell you dont have to spar if you never want, but having the option and knowing the guys you train under do helps alot. Thats why I was very "meh" about them having kumite champions. It doesnt mean much because most kumite suck and isnt like knockdown karate, but many will call it that.

Almost every peron on this site I think will agree with what I have said and wouldn't really recommend those schools.

I'd look into the AFC programs, maybe the Ingargiola Kempo schools (Shaolin Self Defense Centers), but thats a maybe still.

**GIJoe6186** · Posted On: 7/10/2008 11:14pm

Someone asked to post these Matt Thornton vids, they're really good to watch.

YouTube - Matt Thornton - Functional martial arts

This is the best one I think:
YouTube - Matt Thornton on Training - Aliveness

**foxguitar** · Posted On: 7/11/2008 9:24am

Originally Posted by GIJoe6186

Someone asked to post these Matt Thornton vids, they're really good to watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_T0WLoI6pk

This is the best one I think:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoFwwxnM5QM

He makes alot of sense , but sadly if most schools trained that way they be out of business , which in and of itself for alot of Mcdojos isnt abad thing.

I think its up to the prospective student to pick the type of training , Some people want it strictly for exercise and are scared to death to get injured and wouldn't step a foot in a school like that . For example my ex brother in law earned a 2nd dan in TKD and he very rarely sparred , he hated it , "I hate to compete he would tell me" I used to tell him well there junior all your fancy spinning bullshit wont work in a real life situation.

Then you have your people want that type of trainining and anything short is a joke for them.

My ideal school is one that offers both , the artistic, exercise Katas etc , and the sparring ,

How the hell you going to know if your techniques work without a live dynamic partner.

I think he is spot on .He has my respect

**Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs** · Posted On: 7/13/2008 4:05pm

A serious question:

Are there any kempo-styles/lineages that are good/effective/realistic as a standard.
I mean this like :for example when you walk into any kyokushin karate / Judo / BJJ school around the world you will get the same type of training, requering from their students the same standards.
Are there kempo-styles from which men can say: walk any dojo in where in the world, the trainings will be the same, the standards will be the same?

**metalforlunch** · Posted On: 7/13/2008 5:14pm

Depends on what you're looking for. As far as Hawaiian style ke?po goes, Generally CHA 3 will have brutal KeNpo schools, Adriano Emperado Method Kajukenbo schools will likely also be badass. Can't speak for Kara-Ho Kempo, but that was what William Chow was calling his style when he died, so that speaks for itself. Most Karazenpo Goshinjutsu schools are reputed to have good hard training as well. Most styles of Japanese kempo, which are unrelated to the hawaiin styles, can differ. You might check out Ryu-te Renmei if you have a chance, thats the organization that Seiyu Oyata runs. Shorinji Kempo is also in there, although I don't know much about it other than it looks like a mix of aikijujutsu and karate. You have to use your common sense though, just like Judo, Kyokushin, or Jiujitsu, you might get something thats not quite what you're looking for, I.E. maybe the BJJ school focuses more on self defense than competition. There's a BJJ place near me that's like that, most of the people I've spoken to from there compete on their own rather than as a team from that school. Likewise, with Kyokushin you know you're going to have hard sparring, but some schools may focus more on forms than sparring and vice versa.

Unfortunately with Ke?po, you can have anything in between, and the crappy dead pattern punch in and larp schools far outnumber the realistic ones. I've been training kempo for seven years, since I was 14, and watched first hand as the sparring at my school decreased and became lighter and lighter contact as the school grew. It's damned near impossible to get my instructor to offer any advice on sparring, all he wants to do are forms and techniques with no live application training. He DOES talk about how you SHOULD train alive, but then doesn't do it. This is driving me towards a Kyokushin karate school around me that's run by a former Uchi Deshi of Mas Oyama, because I'm tired of being ignored when I request full contact sparring or some sort of realistic free-fighting thing. It doesn't help that the majority of students at the place are 35 and older (no offense to any older people older than that on here) who are in **** shape and won't spar hard because they're afraid of getting hurt. On top of that, we just joined the association of a hawaiian who WANTS us to practice HARD like they do over in hawaii, including 2 on 1 sparring drills full contact for a certain time period until the limit runs out, or until you get beaten so bad you can't continue. Solid practice right? Well my instructor decided it would be a good idea to do that, just with a point sparring system. The two guys attacking you can't score points, but once you score five, you're all done. Wait to destroy a drill that actually might benefit your students. I'm waiting it out to see if things shape up or get shitty. If they get any shittier I'm gone.