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  1. nightowl is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/19/2008 8:42am


     Style: Koryu Budo, Shooto

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh El Macho
    Nope. At least, I don't deny that.

    My argument is that the average Joe will never get anywhere with steroids, because, well, he's an average Joe. A diligent athlete is not an average Joe. He/she already has what it takes to make them work for his/her athletic goals.

    Case in point: me. I'm an average Joe. I could pump my ass with roids, but I would not get anywhere beyond feeling and sleeping better. I'd need to train my ass intelligently to get them to work.



    Exactly, and that's what makes the difference between the average Joe, the casual lifter, and the athlete who actually trains rather than works out (more on that later.)



    No, I don't think they'd get as big or strong or faster as they are without using them. But they were already bigger/stronger/faster than the average joes. They were already athletes. They were already in a position to make them work (as opposed to the dudes who cluelessly inject themselves with them without having what it takes - physically and mentally - to make them work.)

    Seriously, I've seen pot-bellied, chicken-legged people injecting themselves in the locker rooms of LA Fitness and Golds Gym... and they still eat like crap, bicep curl until cows come home, lightly run on the threadmill for 40 minutes as they feel good about it.

    That is my contention. Steroids do not make one get bigger faster and easier. There is nothing easy about it. The person using them has to haul ass to make them work. He has to train, not just work out. It's not a panacea for the average Joe.

    Unless a person is really committed to an intelligent, aggressive program (be it for grappling or lifting), mid-long term, that person should not waste his money on it.
    Conceeded. :eusa_boohI'm still going to look into that survey.
  2. nightowl is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/19/2008 8:56am


     Style: Koryu Budo, Shooto

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Alright- here are the details:

    The survey was taken by Dr. Bob Goldman, President of the National Academy of Sports Medicine, in 1994. The survey group was of 198 athletes described as 'aspiring Olympians'. When asked the following questions;

    -If you were offered a banned performance-enhancing substance that guaranteed that you would win an Olympic medal and you could not be caught, would you take it?

    and

    -Would you take a banned performance-enhancing drug with a guarantee that you will not be caught, you will win every competition for the next 5 years, but will then die from adverse effects of the substance?
    195/198 said they would take substance A. 50>% said that they would take substance B, even knowing that they were to die.


    Sources: Journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics (http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...ull/117/3/e577), Sports Illustrated (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200.../us.doping.ap/)
  3. nomamao is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/21/2008 10:46am


     Style: Hung Ga Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, cheating and not getting caught is kind of a no brainer for anyone, but the death thing would throw me for a loop. But, 5 years of being on top of the world and still not being caught might make it all worth it.

    I understand where those athletes are coming from.

    But, really... I'm not sure why an average Joe would do roids, but I do understand why competitive athletes would.

    I still think having a Roid Olympics would be great and that those that were "clean" could still compete on the "nice side" of the fence, and then we can watch records get SHATTERED all the time.

    It would be like watching american gladiators or something.
  4. A.D.D is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/21/2008 11:46am

    supporting member
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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by nightowl
    Alright- here are the details:

    The survey was taken by Dr. Bob Goldman, President of the National Academy of Sports Medicine, in 1994. The survey group was of 198 athletes described as 'aspiring Olympians'. When asked the following questions;

    195/198 said they would take substance A. 50>% said that they would take substance B, even knowing that they were to die.


    Sources: Journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics (http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...ull/117/3/e577), Sports Illustrated (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200.../us.doping.ap/)

    That sounds like a productive survey.

    What would you do for a Klondike Bar?

    Edit: Although Klondike bars exist.
  5. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/21/2008 11:52am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by nightowl
    Alright- here are the details:

    The survey was taken by Dr. Bob Goldman, President of the National Academy of Sports Medicine, in 1994. The survey group was of 198 athletes described as 'aspiring Olympians'. When asked the following questions;

    195/198 said they would take substance A. 50>% said that they would take substance B, even knowing that they were to die.


    Sources: Journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics (http://pediatrics.aappublications.or...ull/117/3/e577), Sports Illustrated (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200.../us.doping.ap/)

    Ok, now I see what you were referring to. That's the typical mentality of an athlete (not necessarily on taking steroids, but on taking risks, sometimes mortal risks, to achieve their athletic goals.)

    This is no average Joe mentality.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  6. Jadonblade is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/21/2008 1:12pm

    supporting member
     Style: San Da, Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by nomamao
    Well, cheating and not getting caught is kind of a no brainer for anyone, but the death thing would throw me for a loop. But, 5 years of being on top of the world and still not being caught might make it all worth it.

    I understand where those athletes are coming from.

    But, really... I'm not sure why an average Joe would do roids, but I do understand why competitive athletes would.

    I still think having a Roid Olympics would be great and that those that were "clean" could still compete on the "nice side" of the fence, and then we can watch records get SHATTERED all the time.

    It would be like watching american gladiators or something.
    And dont forget the cyborgs! and manimals!
  7. Kentucky Fried Chokin is offline
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    Portrait of a BJJer as a Young Man

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    Posted On:
    5/21/2008 1:53pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Correct me if I'm wrong, or if this has already been stated, but don't steriods just allow you to train harder and longer?
  8. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/21/2008 2:09pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yep, the let you train harder and more often, primarily because they allow you to recover faster. When you train, whether is lifting, grappling or running, you abuse you body. It needs to recover from its wear and tear (and from injuries). Steroids do that. All the other benefits (greater strenght, stamina, or size) stem from accelerated recovery alone.

    That was also stated here in this post in this thread: No BS Martial Arts - View Single Post - Bigger, Stronger, Faster: A new movie about steroids.
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 5/21/2008 2:23pm at .
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  9. nomamao is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/21/2008 3:25pm


     Style: Hung Ga Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jadonblade
    And dont forget the cyborgs! and manimals!

    There's already a guy from South Africa that's trying to make it into the Olympics for running WITH NO LEGS, and he's got a shot. I don't know if he's made it by now or not, though. So, yeah, Cyborgs, and manimals are on their way.

    But, steroid freaks need their own playpen. I'd hate to try and compete against a steroid monster when I'm "clean" and lose out just because my body is running at optimal and his can run on overdrive.
  10. nightowl is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/21/2008 4:02pm


     Style: Koryu Budo, Shooto

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by nomamao
    There's already a guy from South Africa that's trying to make it into the Olympics for running WITH NO LEGS, and he's got a shot. I don't know if he's made it by now or not, though. So, yeah, Cyborgs, and manimals are on their way.

    But, steroid freaks need their own playpen. I'd hate to try and compete against a steroid monster when I'm "clean" and lose out just because my body is running at optimal and his can run on overdrive.
    I'd pay to watch a cyborg olympics. Cyborg sychronized swimming anyone?

    That sounds like a productive survey.

    What would you do for a Klondike Bar?

    Edit: Although Klondike bars exist.
    Would you kill a man?
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