Training the Headbutt with Aliveness

[Kintanon]

WTF is with all of the crazy kungfu pretenders? I would have thought all the cool highschool kids would be pretending to be MMA fighters by now...

[DerAuslander]

Give it time.

[Teh El Macho]

no I don't want to thank you. You prove it didn't "dipshit"

That's not how it goes you imbecile. You claim something, YOU prove it. That's how it's done in academia, in real life, and by consequence, in this site. If have paid time to see how this website operates, you should have known better.

I have a suspicion you are one of those people accostumed to make some really wild (read "retarded") remarks, comments and postulations with ignorant people either swallowing it whole or simply nodding without ever saying "are you sure?" or "you are wrong."

Welcome to the real world. You claim it, you prove it. You are in no position to say "you want to" or "you don't want to".

This is what you claimed:

in fact thai clinch isn't thai at all anyway it comes from si lum kung fu

So prove it or get the **** out.

[hungryjoe]

In some as yet undiscovered cave, there is a painting of two cave men in the clinch.

This painting is proof that head butting was an integral part of rock foo.

[Vieux Normand]

In some as yet undiscovered cave, there is a painting of two cave men in the clinch.

This painting is proof that head butting was an integral part of rock foo.

I know the one: Cro-Magnolia.

The figures would be pre-Errant and proto-sayno. And they're not in the clinch. Looks like sayno's face-down and squealing like a (repeatedly) stuck pig. Nothing like a li'l art from the romolithic era.

[BudoMonkey]

Ringworm, you dumbass... all you've provided is conjecture such as 'many have noticed that every muay thai move has a smiliar shaolin counterpart" and "may have origins in india and china", and no facts. Furthermore, you are wrong, and wikipedia is wrong in stating that muay boran was the ancient form of muay thai. Clearly, you are some kind of nuthugger with no serious knowledge of ancient thai arts.

Muay thai boran is a term coined in the early 80s by Arjan Marco De Cesaris, an italalian man who has worked with many different organizations in thailand as an effort to unite and preserve all of the ancient styles of muay thai: muay korat, muay lopburi, muay chaiya, muay pra nakom, etc., which are all the different regional variations of the art. It is essentially a style combining all the forgotten and sports-banned elements of muay thai, and has nothing at all to do with this article.

Muay thai has been in practice since at least the mid 1300s, whereas modern wing chun forms date back to the late 1600s. Any claims that one style was based on another are completely useless as they are entirely unverifiable, especially if we are speaking of one specific technique. Where's your time machine, jackass? I wanna see a video of a shaolin monk teaching a headbutt to a thai general.

Back to the point:
I am scottish, and very aquainted with delivering succesful headbutts. If you don't know, a name for the headbutt is 'the glasgow kiss', coined after my own,loving people. What errant said originally is correct, that there is no way to really practice it full force and training without injuring your opponent, and this in general it is best to throw it very lightly from the grapple or when sparring, or just into their face without contact as a means of preserving that reaction. Only when you fight with it can you really deliver it full force.

I bet if you had that nifty headgear the daido juku guys wear with the clear faceplates, you could at least spar with headbutts. But judging from how much protection they appear to offer in their videos, even then you'd risk hurting your sparring partner pretty bad.

[Petter]

The burden of proof always rests on the person challenging the status quo. This may seem unfair, and cannot be ontologically justified, but it's necessary from a practical point of view.

It is always possible to come up with wild speculation. We could, for instance, have twenty retarded posters claiming that the Thai clinch derives from Wing Chun, Ving Tzun, _ing _un 2.0, Kali, Aikido, ballet, doggy-style, Western boxing, catch-wrestling, and savate, and so forth. If we place the burden of proof on people with widely held, non-retarded ideas, they will have no time to do anything but defend their viewpoints from wild speculation. In general, it isn't even possible to prove that any of these is false, although the preponderance of evidence makes one view rather obviously superior to the other.

This is why -- in everything from papers on quantum electrodynamics in Nature magazine to MT vs. _ing _un threads on Bullshido -- it is up to the challenger of the status quo to provide evidence that, at the very least, his claims are worth taking seriously.

[Teh El Macho]

I don't have a time machine kids I can't prove thai was influenced by si lum but you can't prove it wasn't. Your standard of proof is a falsehood of arrogance.

Fortunately for us no one has claimed it hasn't. We can claim that, based on existing evidence, it is an authoctonous development, and that any foreign influence or contribution (which is very possible and real) is obfuscated by myth and lack of historical records (thus making it impossible or near impossible to say it came from X or Y art outside of Thailand.)

Unfortunately for you, dumbass, you did indeed claimed it (notice the absolute terms in which you spoke - highlighted in yellow):

in fact thai clinch isn't thai at all anyway it comes from si lum kung fu

You claimed that it wasn't tai, and you claimed it came from Si Lum Kun Fu. This is completely different from saying that it was influenced by Si Lum KF (which you also need to substantiate.)

So if you cannot prove it, why did you claim it so in the first place like a dumb tard?

Again, it comes to back to the point you are used to pull claims and statements out of your ass without ever having someone questioning their validity.

You can't say "neer neer kiddies, I cannot prove myself right, but you cannot prove me wrong" expecting that to be a valid counterargument... well, except in kindergarden. There is like totally cool and valid.

The si lum clinch position can be used for striking with the head but it is by no means a prerequisite to doing so.

If you just had started with this statement rather than pulling wild claims out of your poop hole...

[BudoMonkey]

Back to the video you provided, ringworm - I am not extremely fimiliar with si lum and if that is the standard and singular method for how to clinch in your style, but the clinch being used in that demonstration is actually dangerous and ineffective position to attempt a headbutt from. He's holding him rather low, which would normally not be a problem, but he only holds the back of the neck, and does not use the pressure of squeezing his forearms to control his opponent's side-to-side. By holding him so low in that position, he has no way of lifting his opponent's head up to headbutt safely to the face. If the bald man tried to headbutt him down from there, he would get the top of the other guy's dome right into the nose/mouth(ideal target for headbutting). A headbutt would actually be a great defence AGAINST what is being shown in the video.

Like I said, I do not understand the intricacies of your style, but if that is the way you are taught a clinch I would say at this point in history that the si lum clinch and the muay thai clinch can be considered two entirely different techniques altogether.

[BudoMonkey]

Oh it's indeed effective against the solar plexus, but I personally wouldn't go out of my way to use it offensively from the clinch. Seems like there are more effective things to do from there. I would suggest using it defensively instead- against the clinch, from that lower position while you're the one being held down.

I would never headbutt a man to the groin. I don't really know if that was a joke or not.

Anybody else have any practical advise for this gentleman on safely practicing headbutts? Or does he have to just go and use it in fights like the rest of us?

Oooh! I thought of something, I dunno if it's obvious or not. When I'm hitting my heavy bag, a big muay thai big that hangs to the floor, I work in headbutts to my combinations. Or if I'm just walking by sometimes I'll headbutt it. It'll strengthen your neck, and your understanding of how to properly throw it without injuring yourself. You should know to just angle your head a bit, and thrust your shoulder's forward. Try not to cock your head back, and then swing it forward with your neck. That way has much less power and a much greater chance of injury. You have to lock the shoulders.