Kwang Jo Choi, founder of Choi Kwang Do

**kwangjochoi** · Posted On: 11/27/2009 3:47am

Originally Posted by madmonkey

True, but whilst training in TKD I never demanded to see my 3rd dan instructors certificate. I think all of us are gullible if we like or admire the person we are learning from.

This is not my endorsement of Kwang Jo Choi but we do need to be fair in some apsects of the investigation.(Need to actually get back onto it at somepoint. Hopefully after Xmas).

Fair point. I agree. Maybe what I was thinking I never actually said properly.

What I meant to say, or should have said, is that I get most annoyed at those that not only gullibly believe something without question, but vehemently defend it without a second thought.

I get asked for my qualifications all the time by new students. Just put them straight into the student guide, copies of certifications and affilation certificates. Made it a lot easier, less questions.

**saman** · Posted On: 12/02/2009 11:04am

Originally Posted by kwangjochoi

I really don't think it's actually the rank that is the issue, but the gullibility of those that believe what they're told, and believe it without question by blind faith.

And, until recently I was embarassed to admit that I, and my family, were some of the gullible for many years. But you guys are correct, 1) the video Dale posted is not actually PROOF and 2) the anti-ckd threads have never actually been about his rank - but about a corrupt organisation where it does all come down to money. As I believe I pointed out at one time, the "art" is good exercise but the physical benefits they claim are unique to ckd is one of the big lies. So are the claims of "ultimate"self-defence" - it's just not. Most of us in TKD (who are honest, at least) will tell you that we would hate to have to defend ourselves against a person who is GOOD in muay thai. Now, there are some videos out on youtube) of a fairly good mt fighter going up against a tkd black belt and the tkd guys kick ass soundly. But, a truly skilled mt fighter would certainly deliver knockout or disabling kicks quite easily and ckd has lulled their students into the false idea that you just block the kick and then you can do a spinning side kick and ... dodge... and an upward puch with your broken arm...and...

**Dempsey1** · Posted On: 12/02/2009 12:41pm

I know this has been said before, but Choi Kwang Do MAI is a cult like organization filled with lies and propaganda.

I was also one of the "gullible" for years. Mainly from Kwang Jo Choi brainwashing us instructors into thinking the art is superior to others.

What is even worse is, the instructors go and do the same thing to their students repeating the pattern... funny thing is Choi has talent for his age and can get away with it... while most of the instructors preaching the same thing as him, do not. (Example: Marshall says TKD or MMA is inferior, while himself can barely kick above hip level... not to mention the Black Belts/Instructors that were awarded for $15,000 in the faculty program)

There is no way I would ever involve myself or my family with CKD MAI again.

**madmonkey** · Posted On: 12/03/2009 12:26pm

If this is the vid you mean I am afraid the "muay thai" guy is not good if he is indeed muay thai at all. The way he turns his head when he gets punched there is just not a muay thai trait. If he is muay thai then he is an extremely poorly trained or inexperienced fighter. I will admit that some of the WTF style kicks are powerful particularly the 3 hit one.

YouTube- Tae Kwon Do Vs Muay Thai

This vid is a bit more realistic in terms of the muay thai elements

YouTube- Muay thai vs Taekwondo

I have trained WTF, ITF and Muay Thai. All produce powerful kickers but I have found on average the most powerful kickers were in Muay Thai. Mainly due to the fact they hit with the SHIN not the INSTEP. That said there are some brilliant fighters that have come out of tkd- Mark Weir for one, yet Muay Thai produces harder fighters as the standard level of training is much more focused towards sparring and fighting, where as TKD has patterns, breaking and self defence

**saman** · Posted On: 12/04/2009 7:40am

No, the one I saw was guys in someplace that looked like a dojo or large room - no ring. That mt fighter was much more proficient, as was the tkd guy.

**kwangjochoi** · Posted On: 12/04/2009 2:53pm

Originally Posted by saman

...But, a truly skilled mt fighter would certainly deliver knockout or disabling kicks quite easily and ckd has lulled their students into the false idea that you just block the kick and then you can do a spinning side kick and ... dodge... and an upward puch with your broken arm...and...

A spinning side kick my friend, is the answer to life, the universe and everything ;)

... well, when coupled with a claw finger strike. [GAME OVER] ;)

**kwangjochoi** · Posted On: 12/04/2009 3:01pm

Originally Posted by madmonkey

I have trained WTF, ITF and Muay Thai. All produce powerful kickers but I have found on average the most powerful kickers were in Muay Thai. Mainly due to the fact they hit with the SHIN not the INSTEP. That said there are some brilliant fighters that have come out of tkd- Mark Weir for one, yet Muay Thai produces harder fighters as the standard level of training is much more focused towards sparring and fighting, where as TKD has patterns, breaking and self defence

I too have trained in multiple arts, and at the end of the day, it comes down to what you know, how you're feeling, what your opponent knows, how they're feeling, and how you both have trained.

What get's under my skin, are the comments about "CKD is the ultimate in self-defense" and "CKD is the world's fastest growing martial art"... From my experience in and out of CKD;

1. CKD is definately NOT the ultimate in self-defense, not by a long shot (but if you've done nothinhg else, it's a good start),
2. These days, CKD would be borderline between health and martial art, with Choi leaning more towards health than martial,
3. Certainly is NOT the fastest growing martial art. Probably the fastest to burn instructors, certainly the fastest to take their money. Not sure about all countries, but MOST would have MMA as the fastest growing, and actual "martial art" not just health.

**saman** · Posted On: 12/11/2009 8:16am

Originally Posted by kwangjochoi

A spinning side kick my friend, is the answer to life, the universe and everything ;)

... well, when coupled with a claw finger strike. [GAME OVER] ;)

Well, personally I have always finished off my attackers with a spinning twisting kick. Foot slap to the side of the face, I always say, and down they go - just like the much reported fools who tried to break into the beloved leader's hotel room one night to find him hiding behind the door and handily stopping them cold with his special kick.:spanky:Bad boys, I spank you now!

No longer in awe, I am presently LMAO

**kwangjochoi** · Posted On: 12/13/2009 2:03pm

Originally Posted by saman

Well, personally I have always finished off my attackers with a spinning twisting kick. Foot slap to the side of the face, I always say, and down they go - just like the much reported fools who tried to break into the beloved leader's hotel room one night to find him hiding behind the door and handily stopping them cold with his special kick.:spanky:Bad boys, I spank you now!

No longer in awe, I am presently LMAO

Damn it, i forgot about that spinning twisting kick ;)

That so ended it.

**saman** · Posted On: 12/14/2009 8:14am

Originally Posted by kwangjochoi

Damn it, i forgot about that spinning twisting kick ;)

That so ended it.

Oh my - the "unique" "martial art" of ckd must have been purloined by the ITA group (the disgruntled former ATA guys)! If you have a chance look at their "franchising" ad in the MAIA /NAPMA magazines and check out the twisting kick that their kid is doing. Looks like it rivals the beloved leader's. Hmmm - could it be that beloved leader took credit for a tkd kick?? Oh no. Not him. He would never lie ; ):bowdown: