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  1. Dempsey1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2008 12:28pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kwangjochoi
    That's not entirely true about CKD being untested, although they haven't let too many people know what happened.

    There was an incident in Canada quite a number of years back between the founder of CKD and a Karate Instructor.

    If you want information on this, I would suggest contacting Master James Lim. He may not give you the story though, to save his own reputation.

    Let me just say that it was not a fun experience for Kwang Jo Choi, but it certainly was for the Karate Instructor.

    Although there are 2 sides to every story, I would be interested in hearing more about this incident.
  2. madmonkey is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2008 2:20pm


     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sorry for the delay in posting, busy time at work. I am still in contact with Ralph Allison who has taken the time to answer the questions I posed fully. I will post the emails here soon.

    I have also been in contact via email with Dr Ben Johnson( the guy mentioned on this website, http://www.suttonckd.co.uk/videos.html) regarding the tests that showed Choi Kwang Do was superior in striking power to other "traditional" martial arts. Dr Johnson works at Kennesaw College and is a legit as far as Internet Research can prove.

    He mentioned the following:
    -That full scientific biomechanical tests were not carried out.
    -That the conclusions reached were based upon observation.
    -The way the tests were carried out ie that the traditional movements were demonstrated by Choi and his people rather than representatives of more traditional arts.
    -That no tests have been carried out to his knowledge.

    He states that
    "Choi Kwang Do never commissioned me to perform actual biomechanical scientific testing and all statements regarding the CKD method are based on observation only."

    This makes all the claims of being biomechanically superior are questionable as the demonstration given was carried out by choi and his people rather than other martial artists compared to choi and his people.
  3. EternalRage is offline
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    WARNING: BJJ may cause airway obstruction.

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2008 2:33pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bajillion Joo Jizzu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by madmonkey
    He mentioned the following:
    -That full scientific biomechanical tests were not carried out.
    -That the conclusions reached were based upon observation.
    -The way the tests were carried out ie that the traditional movements were demonstrated by Choi and his people rather than representatives of more traditional arts.
    -That no tests have been carried out to his knowledge.

    He states that
    "Choi Kwang Do never commissioned me to perform actual biomechanical scientific testing and all statements regarding the CKD method are based on observation only."

    This makes all the claims of being biomechanically superior are questionable as the demonstration given was carried out by choi and his people rather than other martial artists compared to choi and his people.
    hahah bias, no scientific analysis at all, just a quick eyeball eh...
  4. madmonkey is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2008 6:40pm


     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Was very satisfying to find this little bit of info. Unfortunately have not heard back from ITF regarding his grade or Korean embassy regarding his military service (did this on the off chance they might get back to me don;t really expect them to) .


    I will try contacting the ITF hq by phone.
  5. kwangjochoi is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2008 7:46pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: choi kwang do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EternalRage
    Just curious, what were the techniques he showed to get out of mount? And were you resisting 100%? Or give him the benefit of the doubt out of respect?
    It was sprouted a few years back that Choi had a Judo Black Belt, and was an expert in such, including, it was alluded to, Ground Fighting.

    I was fortunate enough to spend a few days watching him train with an English Instructor when he was over here, and, I concluded that,

    1. Choi does not know, and train in Ground Defence in the same way that Sambo and BJJ fighters train
    2. Choi did not understand the basics of Ground Fighting, although it seemed he had watch a video or two about "how to" do a few basic reversals.
    3. Watching him train in this style, was like watching someone try to ride a bike for the first time, awkward and jerky. It was not natural.

    I also saw a few times, including an Instructor session in the UK, where he demonstrated how to get out of an arm bar. The person he did it on did not apply presure on the joint just simpy held it straight, and Choi bit his calf. There was certainly no resistence, or actual demonstration of Ground Fighting. It would have been different if the person he demonstrated on were from a Ground Fighting style. He concluded that "Ground Fighting, you don't need, just CKD basics overcome Ground Fighters."

    I have also seen written testimony where CKD has ridiculed Ground Fighting, and where "HQ" has told Instructors "they don't need that" and "it shouldn't be taught in your school." I saw something not long ago on a website that an Instructor "went back" into CKD, and was asked to stop doing those things. I can't remember where and who, maybe someone could enlighten us.

    The "Public Face" says yes, some instructors teach it and are knowledgeable about it, but the "HQ Fear Factor" has Instructors doing it in secret, or not at all, because of fear of retaliation, expulsion, or worse because it is not kosher.

    I have also had a discussion with an Instructor in GA that wanted to teach BO staff, but was not allowed, after enquiring, because he was told, it may give people an impression that CKD teaches weapons.

    CKD does NOT teach Ground Fighting, because their art and it's founder, have no qualifications in that area. And having none, to claim that it's "the World's Best Self Defense" is abolute Bullshido, hence, I am sure, why it is being investigated here.
    Last edited by kwangjochoi; 7/18/2008 8:03pm at .
  6. kwangjochoi is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/18/2008 7:57pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: choi kwang do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EternalRage
    hahah bias, no scientific analysis at all, just a quick eyeball eh...
    And based on the fact that CKD is "non-competitive" and has never been tested, the claims are really preposterous, and whilst CKD seems to always have the badgerers that will always have an eppy at the thought of CKD being investigated, maybe even ridiculed, the facts seem to present the same;

    - No-one can prove CKD is based on scientific evidence
    - No-one can prove CKD is better than anything else, let alone Macrame
    - No-one can prove Choi's rank
    - No-one can prove Choi's qualifications
    - No-one seems to have qualified in anything other than punching and kicking
    - - and that being only recognizable to CKD people
    - No-one authorizes CKD outside of CKD, showing it's disregard for ITF, WTF, Kukkiwon, etc

    And we have hundreds, maybe even thousand of practitioners around the world, gullibly following a bloke who has disregard for other styles and won't allow his people to Cross Train.

    Yes, it looks like a cult.

    Someone sent me an email, saying that CKD was "the Art for Life." Well it must be, because it certainly doesn't look like it's "the Art for Self Defense"
    Last edited by kwangjochoi; 7/18/2008 8:04pm at .
  7. kwangjochoi is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/19/2008 12:09am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: choi kwang do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by madmonkey
    Sorry for the delay in posting, busy time at work. I am still in contact with Ralph Allison who has taken the time to answer the questions I posed fully. I will post the emails here soon.

    I have also been in contact via email with Dr Ben Johnson( the guy mentioned on this website, http://www.suttonckd.co.uk/videos.html) regarding the tests that showed Choi Kwang Do was superior in striking power to other "traditional" martial arts. Dr Johnson works at Kennesaw College and is a legit as far as Internet Research can prove.

    He mentioned the following:
    -That full scientific biomechanical tests were not carried out.
    -That the conclusions reached were based upon observation.
    -The way the tests were carried out ie that the traditional movements were demonstrated by Choi and his people rather than representatives of more traditional arts.
    -That no tests have been carried out to his knowledge.

    He states that
    "Choi Kwang Do never commissioned me to perform actual biomechanical scientific testing and all statements regarding the CKD method are based on observation only."

    This makes all the claims of being biomechanically superior are questionable as the demonstration given was carried out by choi and his people rather than other martial artists compared to choi and his people.
    This is backed by a guy called Rojer Koo who is in Cartersville GA, and used to work for Choi. His website http://www.ksdi.net/resign.htm menions the lack of supporting evidence and scientific research. And from what it says on his site, and he shouold know, as apparently he was the one that was trying to get the tests carried out, that no tests actually ever occurred.

    Choi has moved to the US so that his history (or lack thereof), and qualifications remain a mystery, except to those who blindly believe what he says, without fact. The only thing biomechanical about Choi is his mouth's dribble verbage, and that's not been proven either :lame:
  8. kwangjochoi is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/19/2008 12:16am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: choi kwang do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "CLICK ON THE VIDEOS BELOW TO SEE WHY CHOI KWANG DO IS DIFFERENT - AND BETTER !

    Where other martial arts still haven’t moved into the 21st Century - our style has been analysed and researched by medical Professionals . Their Testimonials will be intriguing both to advanced martial artists wishing to change their style as well as beginners who are looking for the most advanced art available today."

    This statement is on the site mentioned above, http://www.suttonckd.co.uk/videos.html

    Better? Who says it's better? Who says other Martial Arts haven't moved into the 21st Century?

    This Ralph Alison guy is a dreamer. Get your head out of the sand. Do you really believe that no one, not one style, art or person has modified their arts for the 21st century?

    I believe it was UFC that did this, not CKD.
  9. Dempsey1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/19/2008 2:31am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well said kwangjochoi
  10. NONONSENSE is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/19/2008 2:45am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: CKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Shepherd sucks up to FAKE MASTER !

    Quote Originally Posted by sheperd
    the so called "Faculty program" where people with little martial art experience are promoted to the upper levels, ,,,,,,,,,,,, and joined an organization called Kinect.
    Whatt does Shepherd know ?? NOT much ( and he was a INSTRUCTOR ???).

    No one is admitted to the `Faculty Programme` unless they are at least 1st Dan Black belt and the other stuff he`s writing about is nonsense too.

    BUT HELP IS AT HAND ! !!!!

    He has joined the GLORIOUS Kinnect Organisation . The " Fiounder " of "Kinnect" is a former CKD 4th Dan who left because he cried about membership fees ( of which most he didn`t pay anyway) and PROMOTED HIMSELF TO 5th Dan ( Master level) within DAYS of having tested for 4th Dan in his former art . HOW PHONEY CAN YOU GET ??? FAKE MASTER is like the blind leading the blind ...... no wonder he charges NOTHING in his so called "organisation" ... as it`s worth NOTHING ! :qright3:

    Shepherd , If I was you I`d shut up and go back training with your fake " Master " !
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