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  1. amiller127 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2008 5:50am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Choi Kwang-Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kwangjochoi
    That is true. The highest rank he reached in TKD was 4th Dan.

    9th Dan came about by moving to the US and claiming to be the founder of a new style in 1987, namely Choi Kwang-Do. He will not answer tyhe question when you ask him directly about it, although if you want some BS, ring him on 770 795 0010 in his Dojang in Kennesaw Georgia.

    A load of crap.

    I bought the ITF pioneers dvd which has a section with GM Choi on it. There they list him as a 6th Dan at the time the video was filmed as you well know seeing as you spout that crap all over the web.

    Happy to grab the section up if you like.
  2. amiller127 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2008 5:56am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Choi Kwang-Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by madmonkey
    I have contacted a variety of current CKD instructors as well as ex CKD instructors. I have also contacted Choi through his websites email. I have also sent emails to the Korean Embassy in London and the ITF to establish his history regarding Dan ranks and military service. Last but not least I have contacted some of the people he claims tested his art.

    I will update the thread as the replies come in.
    Happy to chat to you about Choi Kwang Do if you want to speak to a current instructor. Been doing it for 17 years so far.

    I cant talk for other people but I can say that a lot of accustations on www.Kwangjochoi.net are a load of crap. The site has been set up by a disgruntled ex CKD person.

    my email is CKDwales@yahoo.co.uk
  3. amiller127 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2008 6:24am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Choi Kwang-Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by sheperd
    Sounds like a great idea... As a ex-CKD instructor I can certainly testify to all of the shady dealings that this cult like organization employs. Non existant or incomplete courses like the so called "Faculty program" where people with little martial art experience are promoted to the upper levels, then there is the "Advanced Chief Instructor program,
    Actually im on the program, not part of the faculty. I wouldnt say its incomplete. There is a hell of a lot of info given out for the course.


    The Chief Instructor program, the assistant instructor program, the program director program and lets not forget the Professional school owner program. All of these cost thousands of dollars and are huge rip-offs.
    CI program and AI program are definatly not thousands of pounds. Never been charged anything like that for the CI's and AI's ive produced over the years.

    Oh yeah I almost forgot about the "rebate program" I know of one guy in Georgia who was promoted from green belt to black belt in 2 weeks because he bought Choi's daughters school. Another guy from Michigan went from white belt to third degree black belt in less then three years because he paid his money and kissed the right butts.
    Im UK based so dont know about all that.


    In Choi's book he claims that doing his art can cure almost every disease. Hmmm.... One of the main men who is a seventh degree cannot kick above his knee.
    There is only 1 7th Dan in CKD so im guessing your on about Master Pereira

    http://www.kennesawckd.com/_borders/Sho2.jpg

    Cant kick higher than his knee obviously. Couldnt do it in the 90's either. Although in CKD we dont teach people to kick head height. GMC demonstrates kicks at head height at seminars but we dont tend to kick higher than the belt in general.....

    Also a few years back he was on the front cover of the UK TKDKMA magazine.... Kicking head height. Yes your right. He can barely kick higher than his knee....

    Hmmm....There is no strategy for groundfighting except to bite your opponent. There are no patterns or forms past fourth degree. There are no weapons defenses taught to the students. They constanly ridicule and downgrade other styles like Tae Kwon Do and Karate and Jujitsu. Yet they have yet to back up any of their claims in the ring or mat. Most of the Instructors are over weight and out of shape. Most of the schools are part time and most of the money the international organization takes in is from exorbitant fees charged for testing. Of course no one ever fails as long as they pay.
    The higher you go in the organization the more they take advantage of you.....
    CKD doesnt have groundfighting as part of its syllabus, allthough there are plenty of instructors out there with previous experience that teach it as part of their class. Ive seen the GM teach how to get out of the mount position and a few other ground techniques and been the person demonstrating them with him at a Welsh seminar. Considering im probably 3-4 stone heavier than the guy he had no problems getting me off and into an arm bar or getting up from be being on top.

    We could bring it in, but I dont want CKDHQ to do so yet. If its put in as part of the syllabus then every CKD instructor will be trying to teach it. Some wont have the experience of teaching it and might not know how to do so safely. I think they need to teach the instructors what needs doing and how to teach it safely before HQ even considers bringing escaping from the ground.

    As for not backing up claims in ring or mat, ive had CKD students in Wales enter various fighting competitions. One was a boxing tournament. He knocked out 3 or 4 people with the first 2 punches (cant remember exactly as it was about 7 years ago). I know various old school CKD instructors in the UK used to let some of their students go into competitions in the early days (so long as they didnt do it under CKD officially - and they did well).

    But at the end of the day we dont train for competition fighting. The mentality and psychology of them are different. We train for defending ourselves outside of a ring and I have plenty of feedback from my students over the years and with my own experience and know that it works. End of story on that one....


    As for CKD taking advantage of me. If ive EVER had a probelm ive called them and they have worked with me to sort things out. Ive had GMC himself cancel my fees that I had to send HQ at one point in time as I was struggling financially at one time when I was trying to work through college. I wasnt struggling because of the fees I had to send to CKDHQ but he worked with me to get some debts paid off and then I resumed paying fees.

    When I went to Atlanta to do my 4th Dan I got a lift from Master Pereira to the mall (I didnt have a hire car that time). We agreed that I would calll HQ and see if Master Pereira would be free to pick me up later. If he was out I would get a taxi to pick me up. I called and MP wasnt there, but GMC was. He offered to pick me up himself which he did. We got back to HQ and he told me he felt bad that as he had been busy the last few days he hadnt been able to spend as much time with me as he would like so he took me to get a coffee and spent and hour or two chatting and catching up. Only a little thing but how many Korean Grandmasters do you know would do that? I personnally have nothing but the utmost respect for Grandmaster Choi. Some of the things ive heard other isntructors say about how he treats them is the polar opposite to how ive EVER been treated in my 17 years of being in CKD.


    As for the NO ONE EVER FAILS testing line. Thats CRAP.

    Students should ONLY be put in to test WHEN THEY ARE READY. If you do your job as an instructor well then hardly anyone should ever fail.

    BUT

    I have failed people testing for black belt. Ive called up GMC to explain to him why and he has always said whatever my decision is HQ will back me. One of my instrutctors in Wales has recently failed one of her students also.

    Also I know that GMC has failed people too at the high ranks. Ive been in Atlanta when a 3rd Dan failed.

    So yeh... in CKD NO ONE EVER FAILS :D

    So
  4. Dempsey1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2008 7:15pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote: sheperd
    "Check out their guestbook sometime. www.choikwangdo.com. They are all convinced that CKD is the best martial art in the world. I think they must all be brainwashed."


    Looks like amiller127 falls into that catagory...
  5. EternalRage is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/15/2008 9:22pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bajillion Joo Jizzu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by amiller127
    Cant kick higher than his knee obviously. Couldnt do it in the 90's either. Although in CKD we dont teach people to kick head height. GMC demonstrates kicks at head height at seminars but we dont tend to kick higher than the belt in general.....

    Also a few years back he was on the front cover of the UK TKDKMA magazine.... Kicking head height. Yes your right. He can barely kick higher than his knee....
    Really? Because I just typed in Choi Kwang Do into google image and also into youtube vids, looking around randomly, and anytime someone's kicking it's usually above head height.

    For a system that's discussed in TKD Times, it looks like alot of high snappy kicking found in most mainstream Korean MA. Just wondering - what's the diff between this and TKD?

    CKD doesnt have groundfighting as part of its syllabus, allthough there are plenty of instructors out there with previous experience that teach it as part of their class. Ive seen the GM teach how to get out of the mount position and a few other ground techniques and been the person demonstrating them with him at a Welsh seminar. Considering im probably 3-4 stone heavier than the guy he had no problems getting me off and into an arm bar or getting up from be being on top.
    Just curious, what were the techniques he showed to get out of mount? And were you resisting 100%? Or give him the benefit of the doubt out of respect?

    We could bring it in, but I dont want CKDHQ to do so yet. If its put in as part of the syllabus then every CKD instructor will be trying to teach it. Some wont have the experience of teaching it and might not know how to do so safely. I think they need to teach the instructors what needs doing and how to teach it safely before HQ even considers bringing escaping from the ground.
    Sensible. You could try not making it a part of CKDHQ and just make some sort of agreement with grappling schools to maybe give seminars or come in once a week and give a basic class. Better than nothing, and better than what you are afraid of - CKD instructors just BSing it.

    But at the end of the day we dont train for competition fighting. The mentality and psychology of them are different. We train for defending ourselves outside of a ring and I have plenty of feedback from my students over the years and with my own experience and know that it works. End of story on that one....
    Ehhhh this is a whole separate discussion, but basically, competition is a good thing, it has it's benefits and should be encouraged.

    Students should ONLY be put in to test WHEN THEY ARE READY. If you do your job as an instructor well then hardly anyone should ever fail.
    If that's the case, why even bother having the test in the first place? If you do your job and you know your student can pass your test, then why bother? This is where McDojo red flags pop up, especially if there are fees involved... Seems like a quick way to bring in revenue, and show the parents some semblance of "purchased product" so they don't feel their money is being thrown into the wind.

    One other thing, I read on the main site about the benefits for health and wellness, which is pretty much just normal preventive medicine "exercise is good for you" basic stuff on there. But that other site claims that you guys say that CKD will stop brain tumors and arthritis and other diseases - is that true? Is that an official statement from your organization?
  6. JanusMagus is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2008 12:03am


     Style: Muay Thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wonder if anyone won a tournament (kickboxing?) training CKD alone? I mean, in my classes there were people who also did BJJ and formerly trained in other styles such as muay thai.
  7. amiller127 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2008 3:41am

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     Style: Choi Kwang-Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by EternalRage
    Really? Because I just typed in Choi Kwang Do into google image and also into youtube vids, looking around randomly, and anytime someone's kicking it's usually above head height.

    For a system that's discussed in TKD Times, it looks like alot of high snappy kicking found in most mainstream Korean MA. Just wondering - what's the diff between this and TKD?
    When it comes to video's and magazines people tend to put up images of them kicking quite high. Not much I can do about that. The majority of people in Choi tend to kick waist level or so. Your going to have to trust me on that one :D

    Just curious, what were the techniques he showed to get out of mount? And were you resisting 100%? Or give him the benefit of the doubt out of respect?
    He was demonstrating so I wasnt struggling against him. I was however making sure I put my whole weight down on him. It was a long time ago. I can remember him covering a few methods of getting someone off of you from the mount and someone on top between the legs. Think I have a video tape of it somwhere. Will take a look and see if I can say what he did exactly.


    Sensible. You could try not making it a part of CKDHQ and just make some sort of agreement with grappling schools to maybe give seminars or come in once a week and give a basic class. Better than nothing, and better than what you are afraid of - CKD instructors just BSing it.
    there are quite a few CKD instructors (in the UK at least) with enough knowledge to do so safely. But not everyone has.

    Ehhhh this is a whole separate discussion, but basically, competition is a good thing, it has it's benefits and should be encouraged.
    The guy was saying we dont back our claims up in the ring or on the matt. Thats why I was talking a little about competition fighting. There are pro's and cons to doing competition fights but my point is, the psychology is different. You enter a competition knowing you are getting into a fight, with both people expecting to get hit etc.

    In a street attack you may not know an attack is coming and the attacker hasnt a clue if you know how to handle yourself either. They arent looking or expecting much of a fight back if they are going to attack you. The situation is different and so the way you train for them should be different (even if some skills from both situations are transferrable). Only a brief explaination here. I could and have gone into a lot more on this subject.

    If that's the case, why even bother having the test in the first place? If you do your job and you know your student can pass your test, then why bother? This is where McDojo red flags pop up, especially if there are fees involved... Seems like a quick way to bring in revenue, and show the parents some semblance of "purchased product" so they don't feel their money is being thrown into the wind.
    Why bother taking exams in your final year of education? You have learned all the info you need during the year, so why bother taking your GCSE, Alevel, Degree etc?

    There are a few reasons why you test students. One of the reasons is to see how they remember their stuff and deal with it under a bit of pressure. In class its not as intimidating to do your stuff but when your on a testing floor with an audience then nerves kick in and a little bit of adrenaline now and then.

    Testing also gives you the chance to get external feedback. I know a lot of CKD instructors get other examiners to mark their students. It shows you that your students are conforming to a specific standard. Other examiners may catch things that you might have missed etc.

    Also testing tends to give the students a sense of achievment. Even if they are ready I know quite a few students who would just be annoyed if you handed them a belt and said you are ready. Maybe we have a masochistic streak in us in that we like to be tested and feel like we have earned the belt.

    One other thing, I read on the main site about the benefits for health and wellness, which is pretty much just normal preventive medicine "exercise is good for you" basic stuff on there. But that other site claims that you guys say that CKD will stop brain tumors and arthritis and other diseases - is that true? Is that an official statement from your organization?

    The other site claims a lot of things. They have claimed to have proof to back up their accusations but in the last 2 years that the kwangjochoi site has been up they havent put any kind of proof up.

    Ive NEVER heard CKDHQ say that CKD will CURE brain tumors or any other degenerative disease. CKD HQ is based in the USA. Can you IMAGINE how quickly they would get sued if they claimed to be able to cure it and failed?

    All they have said is that excercising to a light to moderate intensity has been found to help the body lower the risk of getting degenerative diseases and due to the way the syllabus is structured you get a good progressive all over workout that HQ believe is ideal for overall health.

    The problem is, the people who have left Choi on bad terms tend to do so and then get together to attack it. They dont tend to tell both sides of the story though. Im not going to say HQ never makes any mistakes because thats would be a lie. But some of the most vocal anti Choi ex instructors make some dodgy accusations about HQ. And if you try and say your experience is different to theirs then your obviously a brainswashed ass kissing instructor who hasnt gotten scammed yet according to them. You dont get much proof from them though....
  8. JanusMagus is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2008 10:23am


     Style: Muay Thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know for a fact that HQ was asking for ridiculous fees, such as required and very expensive seminars etc. It's the main reason most people left and joined Kinect, etc.
  9. EternalRage is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/16/2008 12:09pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bajillion Joo Jizzu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by amiller127
    When it comes to video's and magazines people tend to put up images of them kicking quite high. Not much I can do about that. The majority of people in Choi tend to kick waist level or so. Your going to have to trust me on that one :D
    Ok. Is CKD as kicking intensive as other KMAs?

    He was demonstrating so I wasnt struggling against him. I was however making sure I put my whole weight down on him. It was a long time ago. I can remember him covering a few methods of getting someone off of you from the mount and someone on top between the legs. Think I have a video tape of it somwhere. Will take a look and see if I can say what he did exactly.
    Yeah just curious what the moves were.

    The guy was saying we dont back our claims up in the ring or on the matt. Thats why I was talking a little about competition fighting. There are pro's and cons to doing competition fights but my point is, the psychology is different. You enter a competition knowing you are getting into a fight, with both people expecting to get hit etc.

    In a street attack you may not know an attack is coming and the attacker hasnt a clue if you know how to handle yourself either. They arent looking or expecting much of a fight back if they are going to attack you. The situation is different and so the way you train for them should be different (even if some skills from both situations are transferrable). Only a brief explaination here. I could and have gone into a lot more on this subject.
    Well, no one will argue with you that street and ring/mat are different. But assuming that poster was referring to MMA or some sort of NHB ruleset, it's the best way to test your skills short of getting into an actual fight. It's pretty much the most relaxed ruleset you can fight under within the bounds of the law.

    How would you simulate an attack like the one you describe? If you do it in class, you still know that you are in class and that it's your training partners who are going to do it to you.

    Why bother taking exams in your final year of education? You have learned all the info you need during the year, so why bother taking your GCSE, Alevel, Degree etc?
    I don't think that analogy fits. In academics, your instructor most of the time has no clue how much info you have assimilated and how well you can apply it. And neither does the institution that is going to back you up in your career with it's name, pretty much putting it's prestige and reputation on the line for you.

    If you point to standardized exams like the SAT, DAT, MCAT, whatever, those again are for schools that don't trust using college grading systems, which can vary greatly, to evaluate an applicant's worth.

    A martial arts instructor doesn't just show you a technique and then walks out the door. He will (hopefully) watch you do it, give you pointers, make sure you are doing it right. He will (hopefully) spar with you, see how well you can apply those techniques.

    Maybe testings would be appropriate if you've got something like 50-100 students in a class and you can't keep track of everyone. But hopefully you would have assistant instructors and seniors still helping you out and being able to serve as your eyes.

    There are a few reasons why you test students. One of the reasons is to see how they remember their stuff and deal with it under a bit of pressure. In class its not as intimidating to do your stuff but when your on a testing floor with an audience then nerves kick in and a little bit of adrenaline now and then.
    That's what sparring and competitions are for.

    Testing also gives you the chance to get external feedback. I know a lot of CKD instructors get other examiners to mark their students. It shows you that your students are conforming to a specific standard. Other examiners may catch things that you might have missed etc.
    This is reasonable.

    Also testing tends to give the students a sense of achievment. Even if they are ready I know quite a few students who would just be annoyed if you handed them a belt and said you are ready. Maybe we have a masochistic streak in us in that we like to be tested and feel like we have earned the belt.
    I dunno, you earn the belt with the skills you develop by putting countless hours of blood and sweat into the mat, not by going through the motions one Saturday morning for a couple of hours. Everyday you stand in front of someone and fight is the test...

    Ive NEVER heard CKDHQ say that CKD will CURE brain tumors or any other degenerative disease. CKD HQ is based in the USA. Can you IMAGINE how quickly they would get sued if they claimed to be able to cure it and failed?
    That's what I figured.
  10. Dempsey1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/16/2008 12:11pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by amiller127
    The problem is, the people who have left Choi on bad terms tend to do so and then get together to attack it. ..

    Looks to me quite a few people have left. http://ksdi.net/resign.htm
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