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  1. #171
    Jim_Jude's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Simio del las Rocas
    I didn't say I didn't believe in what I do but, I'm an infantry soldier not a politician or policy maker and, ultimately, my personal opinion is worthless within a 'higher' military environment thus, if I didn't actually want to do what I do, I'd leave; but that's not the case.

    For some, this simplistic point of view will be difficult to understand.
    "I DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR (OR AFFIRM)
    THAT I WILL SUPPORT AND DEFEND
    THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES
    AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC;
    THAT I WILL BEAR TRUE FAITH AND ALLEGIANCE
    TO THE SAME; AND THAT I WILL OBEY THE ORDERS
    OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
    AND THE ORDERS OF THE OFFICERS APPOINTED
    OVER ME, ACCORDING TO REGULATIONS
    AND THE [UCMJ]. SO HELP ME GOD..."
    - from the Military Oath of Allegiance


    You might not care about politics, but I would hope that American soldiers, enlisted and commissioned, hold this oath close to their hearts. According to this oath, we swore to defend the Constitution against ANY ENEMY, FOREIGN OR DOMESTIC. If the Government and your leaders seek to violate the Constitution thru you, you should think about that.
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney

  2. #172
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude
    "I DO SOLEMNLY SWEAR (OR AFFIRM)
    THAT I WILL SUPPORT AND DEFEND
    THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES
    AGAINST ALL ENEMIES, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC;
    THAT I WILL BEAR TRUE FAITH AND ALLEGIANCE
    TO THE SAME; AND THAT I WILL OBEY THE ORDERS
    OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
    AND THE ORDERS OF THE OFFICERS APPOINTED
    OVER ME, ACCORDING TO REGULATIONS
    AND THE [UCMJ]. SO HELP ME GOD..."
    - from the Military Oath of Allegiance


    You might not care about politics, but I would hope that American soldiers, enlisted and commissioned, hold this oath close to their hearts. According to this oath, we swore to defend the Constitution against ANY ENEMY, FOREIGN OR DOMESTIC. If the Government and your leaders seek to violate the Constitution thru you, you should think about that.
    Oops he doesn't have to listen to that oath.

  3. #173
    Jim_Jude's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mrm1775
    Now, I prefer to attack the argument and not the debater, but...

    Every time I debate a truther, this is where their true colors shine through. There is a difference between being suspicious of one's government and fervently believing that they are responsible for the most devastating attack, and most devious and well orchestrated coverup, in the nation's history. I don't trust my elected officials any farther than I can throw them, but I do not allow myself to be so consumed by paranoia that I will believe anything that would justify my suspicions. You, my friend, seem to have fallen in to the same trap that all conspiracy theorists fall victim to. You approach the issue having already made your conclusion and wanting to find evidence to support what you believe, rather than using objective analysis. I invite you to step back, look at all of the sources available to you, and keep two things in mind:
    1) their credibility (are they academically qualified to make these conclusions)
    2) their agenda (are they trying to reach a conclusion or justify a belief)
    Thanks for the rational, well put post. I appreciate it. & please know that I buy all of the crap out there (bomb pods on the planes / missile hitting the second tower, etc). However, I have questions that as of yet haven't been answered, and I will con't to seek until I'm satisfied.

    Mull that over for a couple of weeks. I'm off to Cali. :XXsunsmil
    You're off to "Cali"? I'm in CA, you'd better watch out all these liberal nut-jobs don't rub off on you...
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney

  4. #174

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Madgrenade
    Who is this straw man? In what way was he responsible for 9/11?
    Sorry for the obfuscating post. My point is that Jones is responsible for a lot of straw men. In fact, he's the queen of straw men. Spawns one every five minutes.

  5. #175
    jubei33's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mrm1775
    There is a difference between being suspicious of one's government and fervently believing that they are responsible....I don't trust my elected officials any farther than I can throw them, but I do not allow myself to be so consumed by paranoia that I will believe anything that would justify my suspicions.
    This is probably the biggest issue at hand for most people I talk with about it. The government has built up a large trust gap through secrecy and expediency that most people have taken issue with. Most people wholeheartedly want to change this and there is no problem with wanting that change. The problem is when you weave an even more fantastic tales in order to catalyze that change, you lose the biggest source of support: people's disaffection at being lied to.

    If you want to talk real cover up then present evidence, numbers, not speculation. (**** man, the atomic veterans have enough photographs and letters to pave city streets). Otherwise, you're just gathering wool.

  6. #176
    tharuz's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't care about the whole deal, none of my family is in the military, if worst comes to worst I'll just see what happens and saty or move.

    I expected more pages of this bullshit, I'm dissapointed.

  7. #177
    Jim_Jude's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    Oops he doesn't have to listen to that oath.
    Yes, that fact wasn't lost on me. I suppose that's why I mentioned AMERICANS. Learn to read, Ass...
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney

  8. #178
    Domite's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In my opinion, the Zeitgeist documentary is much better than the loose change one. Much more factually based, much less bombastic.

    In addition to discussing the potential political motivations of 9/11, it discusses how the federal reserve came in to power, and the tragedies used as incentives for WW1, WW2, and Vietnam. There is some speculation at the end about a world government and biometric IDs. It's long as hell, but I learned a lot from it.

    Here's the link: http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/index.html

    refresh it until it reads 2:02 at the right side.

  9. #179
    It is Fake's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude
    Yes, that fact wasn't lost on me. I suppose that's why I mentioned AMERICANS. Learn to read, Ass...
    Sure whiny bitch.

    "I play devil's advocate but, I really don't."



    Shut up.

  10. #180
    Jim_Jude's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    Sure whiny bitch.

    "I play devil's advocate but, I really don't."



    Shut up.
    The Internet sure is safe, huh? You're "fake", you bitch. I'll say what the **** I want, have fun trying to shut me up.

    I love Bullshido. Chock full of whiney, ****-talking little bitches that don't know their ass from a hole in the ground. You're right at the top of the list, honey.
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney

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