What's Included In TKD?

**Miguksaram** · Posted On: 9/05/2008 7:32am

Originally Posted by Metalhead_Matt

There is man, Tkd has a LOT of deep history behind it, and what I mean by traditional TKD, is TKD in it's true form, which involves all around self defense, ground fighting, weapons fighting, joint locks and of course all of the kicks, don't let the bad reputation brought to TKD by all of the Mcdojangs corrupt your opinion of TKD, at it's best it's a solid, practical all around martial art.

Please provide me with your lineage. I would like to know what Kwan you're art is stemming from, who your Master and Grandmaster are. Thanks

***DerAuslander*** · Posted On: 9/05/2008 7:41am

Who is your daddy & what does he do?

**EternalRage** · Posted On: 9/05/2008 11:26am

Originally Posted by Vieux Normand

I'm looking at a MA book I've had for three or so decades. It has things which resemble:

...

These are all in Richard Chun's 1976 book "Tae Kwon Do--The Korean Martial Art" (ISBN#0-06-010779-0). Some of you may have it. Now some of the resemblences are pretty close, such as the throws, breakfall and rolls. Others are, to put it very mildly, superficial, such as the 'guards' and the Aikido-looking stuff. The rest of the book is pretty consistent with TKD as it is assumed to be today, plus head-punches, hooks, uppercuts, and what-not.

My question is this: are the techniques listed above considered part of TKD? TKD was reportedly assembled from a number of styles in the mid-twentieth century, and how much of the styles that made TKD up were Korean and how much was Japanese has been debated elsewhere. I recall, in the Dojang I attended in the 70s, doing a lot of what's in the book, which I have not seen in TKD clubs more recently.

So are all these throws and other stuff part of TKD or just add-ons, better to be just called something like Hoshin-Sul? Just curious...

I have this book (1st edition, the second one was released this January) and another one of his from Ohara publications.

IIRC Chun is a Moo Duk Kwan guy. I spent a number of years in Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan, and never saw any groundwork. As far as I can tell from the Moo Duk Kwan's history resources, there wasn't any groundwork in their martial arts. My guess would be that Chun picked up some Judo here and there and put it into his system.

**Miguksaram** · Posted On: 9/05/2008 11:51am

Originally Posted by EternalRage

I have this book (1st edition, the second one was released this January) and another one of his from Ohara publications.

IIRC Chun is a Moo Duk Kwan guy. I spent a number of years in Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan, and never saw any groundwork. As far as I can tell from the Moo Duk Kwan's history resources, there wasn't any groundwork in their martial arts. My guess would be that Chun picked up some Judo here and there and put it into his system.

I don't think he ever did Yudo, but I could be mistaken. You are correct that MDK does not contain ground work. Let me clarify something. When I am talking about arm bars I'm talking about Jujitsu type arm bars now simple arm locks that can be found in almost all martial arts. TKD does contain some simple traps and locks, that are indigenous to TKD (well karate I should say) However they are not extensive like that of jujitsu.

**DSL** · Posted On: 9/06/2008 2:21pm

His book says he's from MDK background.

There are some in there (pg 276+) in the Self-defense section, that look much like a standard arm bar. Someone choking you from the side, knee in, other leg over etc, ends up being an arm bar (although he says then 'break the wrist').

In my own background of TKD, almost all of the grappling or joint lock techniques came from outside sources and had simply been included in the curriculum. I'm sure some were simply remnants of it's Shotokan roots.