Object Lessons: Striking vs Grappling

**M.C.** · Posted On: 5/06/2008 1:04pm

What worked for me with one guy in the JJ class was when he should hit the "mits" and I just keept wacking him over the head with the mit.
If you have to go around their "guard" or over it with that big mit and still be able to slightly wack them, it shows them that they would never be able to defend against a real punch to the face. Just my 2 cent on the topic.

**Kintanon** · Posted On: 5/06/2008 1:07pm

Originally Posted by It is Fake

DO many variables going on in their mind. You aren't trying to demoralize and lose a student.

I don't think the issue is so much students as it is potentially delusional Throwdown attendees. People who show up thinking their 14 Point Sparring trophies make them T3h Deadly.
How do you show that person, demonstrably, that they are NOT as effective as they believe they are without smashing them senseless over and over again?

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 5/06/2008 1:08pm

We have hit everything from classes to TD. We are talking about both.

**MaverickZ** · Posted On: 5/06/2008 1:08pm

Originally Posted by Kintanon

How do you show that person, demonstrably, that they are NOT as effective as they believe they are without smashing them senseless over and over again?

Why would you want to do that?

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 5/06/2008 1:09pm

Originally Posted by MaverickZ

Why would you want to do that?

Why wouldn't you?

***WhiteShark*** · Posted On: 5/06/2008 1:10pm

Originally Posted by MaverickZ

Why would you want to do that?

I know I'm falling for a troll/trap but in case anyone reading this doesn't know.

We want to do that because that is why many of us go to throwdowns. Sharing our experience of discovering what works and getting out of our dead styles.

**money** · Posted On: 5/06/2008 1:14pm

Originally Posted by The Question

I don't know what the **** Whiteshark is going on about. You can in fact dominate someone in striking to the same extent as in grappling and not hurt them. I've sparred with motherfuckers who I couldn't touch, or moved much faster than I did and thought "goddamn, this guy is much better than I am".

They slipped, moved, landed shots, and it hit home "I'm not on his level yet".

On the other hand, I've rolled with guys who went easy on me and though "oh, my grappling doesn't suck as much as I thought it did".

Yes, but you're not a delusional larper.

I dunno, if someone's not going to admit they're beaten at medium contact, there's no guarantee they'll do it through hard contact either. There's always a deadly technique or two that they couldn't use that would've totally turned the fight around.

PS. Whiteshark, I totally knew I was outclassed even though you were going super light on me at the mega. Thank you for not knocking me out with that head kick.

**MaverickZ** · Posted On: 5/06/2008 1:19pm

Originally Posted by WhiteShark

I know I'm falling for a troll/trap but in case anyone reading this doesn't know.

We want to do that because that is why many of us go to throwdowns. Sharing our experience of discovering what works and getting out of our dead styles.

I'm not always a jerk you know.

Anyway, this is what I was trying to convey.

Originally Posted by Money

Yes, but you're not a delusional larper.

I dunno, if someone's not going to admit they're beaten at medium contact, there's no guarantee they'll do it through hard contact either. There's always a deadly technique or two that they couldn't use that would've totally turned the fight around.

PS. Whiteshark, I totally knew I was outclassed even though you were going super light on me at the mega. Thank you for not knocking me out with that head kick.

If the sucky person you're sparring truly is trying to learn and see what they are doing wrong, they won't need a full force punch to the face to know that. That's required when the person is self deluded. And you're unlikely to convince them otherwise even if you knock them out.

**Escrimator** · Posted On: 5/06/2008 1:21pm

Again, we keep bumping into these same variables:

-how much they suck
-how good are you at the game of choice (striking,grappling)
-how stubborn\stupid the other they are.

my guess is,some people will just never own up to the truth until it´s too late. happens all the time in all other aspects of life,why would fighting be any different.

Again,there are almost as stubborn people who will not "get it" in a grappling situation as there are in striking.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 5/06/2008 1:23pm

I think if you're going into a striking or grappling match with another person, you're missing the point if you're spending your time seeing if you're better than them. Sparring so you can say "yeah, I'm awesome because I didn't get KO'd in light contact sparring" isn't very useful whether or not you did well or poorly IMO. I see it like how IIF dislikes push hands competitions- turning a drill, even a live one, into a contest may limit your learning and development. I see Whiteshark's point, though. Some people may require a beatdown to get an idea of who they're dealing with. I have sparred people who showed me they outclassed me without going all out. When sparring Clyde, he landed several side kicks and round kicks with the ball of the foot to the liver (I was not loling at his kenpo). They hurt, but I could also tell he was holding back a lot of power. With full power, I would be on the ground. When I sparred Poidog with padded sticks, I landed some shots and so did he- but mine were weak in comparisson and would hit his arm or lead leg, while his had better body mechanics and were crippling and knockout type shots, and he was better at following up his first strike with a combination of other ones, while I tend to stop after one. This was obvious to me even though we weren't going all out. When sparring a training partner under san da rules, he almost never hit me, but he blocked almost everything I did and kept picking me up and throwing me. He wouldn't slam me to the mat- it wasn't necessary. When I am going over his shoulders and being set down on the mat, I get the picture. He accomplished the hard part; adding the power is the easy part. I think the lesson is that light sparring is not an exercise for the ego. Train hard, keep improving, and learn whatever you can from anyone you spar.

*This is the perspective of someone who doesn't really plan on competing on a high level, so someone who fights competitively may view this much differently.