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  1. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/06/2008 12:44pm

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     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by angrypedestal
    "does anyone have experience getting the point across while exclusively striking without really dropping bombs on someone?"

    I do, if you check out my posts on the WC thread this span off from, and as you can imagine its fraught with difficulty, I dont mind personally taking a few smacks in the mouth from a friend to let me know what I did wrong, but as stated already things can escalate very quickly and get messy if you arent careful. I wouldnt spar full blast at the throwdowns or similar for these reasons:

    In my experience, although I may sound like a twat in saying this, and especially if you are both Alpha male types who dont back down, its just not a good idea, thats why grappling is so much 'safer' in that way, theres just less shock involved and its much more of a chess game. If you are blizzarding strikes at each other at full pelt, someone gets hit who you dont really know and havent trained with, it may as well be a proper fight. I mean:

    You dont know this person - consequently
    You dont understand this person- consequently
    You dont trust this person

    Given this scenario a smack in the mouth just isnt a smack in the mouth, its difficult enough punching a friend properly, never mind a stranger, and pulling punches and at the same time maintaining a pretence of reality is very difficult.

    Ill post more on the Chun thread also about this, and unfortunately it will revolve around stuff like this already mentioned:

    "Well, if it had been real I'd have killed you"

    Sorry but it can be true sometimes.
    How long have you been training? Seriously, because both ground and striking can be a chess match. Also, as Geordi pointed out, the same Alpha Male **** pops up in grappling.

    I tend to agree with white shark in that putting you to sleep is different than KO'ing someone.

    You can always tell them afterward "that was at 25% intensity" or whatever, if they don't believe you...****'em.
    That leads to the problems we discussed in the other thread. In striking it leads to more trouble. I think it is the same for grappling.
  2. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/06/2008 12:44pm

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     Style: white boy jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Geordi LaForge
    In my experience, they're a lot more similar than you think WS. There are people who just won't tap in grappling unless you hurt them and won't tap to chokes at all. I've had to injure people to give them a reality check in grappling plenty of times.



    I find that if you just parry or block every single shot they throw, you can actually not throw any back and they still get the point. If you aren't good enough to do this, of course, then it doesn't work.
    I was coming into the thread to say this. But Cracky takes steroids and thus his posts are faster and stronger than mine.

    If you can make your opponent fall on his ass by parrying his punches and kicks well enough, I think you can pretty clearly demonstrate your superiority.
  3. The Question is offline
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    Octopussy!

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    Posted On:
    5/06/2008 12:45pm

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     Style: Striking/Grappling/Poking

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't know what the **** Whiteshark is going on about. You can in fact dominate someone in striking to the same extent as in grappling and not hurt them. I've sparred with motherfuckers who I couldn't touch, or moved much faster than I did and thought "goddamn, this guy is much better than I am".

    They slipped, moved, landed shots, and it hit home "I'm not on his level yet".

    On the other hand, I've rolled with guys who went easy on me and though "oh, my grappling doesn't suck as much as I thought it did".
    Quote Originally Posted by Goju - joe
    being a dick with skill is only marginally better than being a dick without skill.
  4. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    5/06/2008 12:48pm

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    See that's my point if you end up saying "Who cares. I know this person sucks." You haven't really improved anything by inviting them to a throwdown/letting them test their game.

    I purposely said improved not proved because one of the original goals of the throwdowns was to improve the standards of the martial hobbyist.

    As far as the Silva Franklin thing goes if that is your example you are essentially saying you have to be a World Class striker before you can show someone why their striking sucks without hurting them. I hope that is not the case.
  5. cyrijl is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/06/2008 12:50pm

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     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree with WS. My standup sucks. I just odn't have the killer instinct (yet). For those that do, they just pound on me. Slipping and moving does not provide the same level of awareness of dominance that pinning someone does in BJJ. I can pin you without submitting you and you can work your way out. Striking doesn't really have that. Either you hit me or I hit you.

    I said to someone in my school "I wish someone in muay thai would treat me like I treat the noobs in BJJ"...maybe it just isn't quite possible to get the same feeling out of it.
    There is no cheating, there is only jiu-jitsu.
  6. pauli is offline

    i keep tryin to spar, but nothin happens!

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    Posted On:
    5/06/2008 12:50pm

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     Style: karate / bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    Yes, when you guys become Silva let me know. I've seen instructors get tagged on occasion and that video isn't a fair representation.

    That is a fight. Yes, that would be demoralizing. Thing is if you are keeping the contact at their level, that isn't going to work.

    DO many variables going on in their mind. You aren't trying to demoralize and lose a student.
    dude, this is ymas. turn that frown upside down.
  7. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/06/2008 12:50pm

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     Style: white boy jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark
    As far as the Silva Franklin thing goes if that is your example you are essentially saying you have to be a World Class striker before you can show someone why their striking sucks without hurting them. I hope that is not the case.
    It's a matter of absolute skill, but relative skill differential. Which is what you're talking about. I've done what Anderson is doing myself. Of course, it was against people were shitty shitty shitty strikers.
  8. Roidie McDouchebag is offline
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    Injury Waiting To Happen

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    Posted On:
    5/06/2008 12:55pm

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     Style: Snatch Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    WS...just TELL THEM YOU WERE GOING EASY. If they then want to go harder, go harder. Problem solved.
  9. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/06/2008 12:55pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ
    It's a matter of absolute skill, but relative skill differential. Which is what you're talking about. I've done what Anderson is doing myself. Of course, it was against people were shitty shitty shitty strikers.
    Exactly. Some people will walk away thinking **** if I had gone harder........
  10. Escrimator is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/06/2008 12:56pm

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     Style: BJJ,WT,Escrima

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Geordi nailed a point i had skipped before perfectly.

    To demonstrate superiority in the first place you do have to that good in the first place,anyway.

    - if the other guy sucks that much at striking, and if you are that good *in comparison*,you can play cat and mouse with him,and never have to hurt the guy.

    Ive done it to particularly uncoordenated but enthusiastic wt nutrider who wanted to "spar". i have to say theres something funny when you can *slap away* chain-punches(im not talking about of pak-sao,i mean just old fashioned smacking). i dont recall doing more than shoving him back as a counter because i didnt want it to come to sticking,where hes claim my chun "technique" was what was beating him.

    -regardless i didnt have to punch him at all and because i wasnt being an overt ass about it, and took the time to share what i thought could help him improve what he was doing,the guy didnt have any problem admiting that he did need to work on his game.

    now,if we had been of equal skill,and common sense wasnt on the menu,i could see it getting ugly as we had to escalate it to one-up the other. but that could also hold true in grappling. what if your grappling game isnt that solid and you have to put the hurt by straining his ligaments in a hold\lock to make him tap out?
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