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  1. #11

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    NW burbs of Chicago
    Posts
    133
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That was a really good video and a great explanation of sombrada.

    'm not against pre-arranged techinque drilling, nor against sombrada per say. But too much of it really isn't good imo, and like many things if used properly it can be a useful tool, if not, it can really mess people up.

    It is a really good drill to get used to blocking and counter attacking from different positions, but like any other pre-arranged pattern it must be broken out of to be effective. I've seen people do nothing but sombrada, no applications like your video, none of the body positioning or proper checking like you or Ryno pointed out, and they just get stuck in the pattern with bad habits. Its ugly.
    Last edited by jeff5; 5/30/2008 10:57pm at .

  2. #12

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    The land of balut and San Miguel
    Posts
    154
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Before I saw that video, I never realized that some people actually do drills standing still like that. That looked really weird to me.

    The way we do drills is always dynamic and mobile. standing still = getting hit. As the student gets better, the drill has to become more challenging and more unpredictable so he or she doesn't get too comfy with a pattern. Speed increases and you add stuff like witik, punyo and the range has to always be changing. the drills must eventually be able to bridge between corto, media and largo until the range can go from corto to largo and vice versa and the strikes and counterattacks are still there.

    But you still need to have drills as a training tool, just not have the everyone really good at a drill and freeze when their partner changes it.

    That "right" example of sumbrada is sloppy..

  3. #13

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    32
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    while I'll agree with the old saw "practice makes permanent" I'd have to play devil's advocate and say that you have to walk before you can run. I come from a JKD/Kali class where 3/4 of the class is in the beginning stages of learning the moves in Lameco. Really needing to go slow to learn the motions. Flowing drills like this can be fairly complex at first and adding proper weight, targeting, footwork and asking them to do it all at full speed is damn near impossible. I can speak from personal experience of getting pretty lost in the flowing drills.

    On the other hand I fully agree with realism in practice. If you're going to throw a number one, throw it with a bit of force and make sure that the end of the stick is coming towards my temple, otherwise you're just going to pick up bad habits. Also, if you and your partner have been doing K/E/A for more than a couple months and you're still static in your flowing drills, then you deserve to get your ass kicked by your instructor.

  4. #14

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    austin, tx
    Posts
    2,436
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Hertao dude posted a follow-up video, reinforcing the point about how hand placement changes once you introduce normal speed and movement.

    http://www.hertao.com/filipinomartialarts/checking-hand

    Yes, I necro'd the thread so that all the related videos would be in one place.

  5. #15
    Meex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Upstate
    Posts
    2,998
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    SC - when you had the original bust-ups online,
    did Burton even give you a chance to explain your
    pov, or did he just ty to bully you into submission?

    Have you ever traded sticks with him, before?

    `~/

  6. #16

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    austin, tx
    Posts
    2,436
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It wasn't me who had the conversation- rather the fellow who was linked.

    I will attempt to find the original conversation and invite the guy from the video to post.

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    austin, tx
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    2,436

  8. #18

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Here and There
    Posts
    10
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey you guys. Glad you liked the videos.

    The link selfcritical posted above is only to the first half of the thread/discussion. It got much better after that, but I don't think there is a copy anywhere. If I remember correctly, Burton got into the discussion in the second half.

    Meex: Burton did give me a chance to explain myself, and I sent him a longer video with more sparring footage to prove my point. His response was that he thought my partner must have been pulling the shots when I was able to crash with the checking hand. Of course I disagree with his response. And, I've never met Burton in person...but have corresponded with him on occasion via email. (I should add that I think Burton is a great guy in honest pursuit of what works. Many people have disagreements.)

  9. #19

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    austin, tx
    Posts
    2,436
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    thanks for posting. I'm going to start another thread on your knife tapping video as well, which is basically the only where I didn't go "Yes, that's obviously it!", basically mirroring the comments I put up on the youtube video.

  10. #20

    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Here and There
    Posts
    10
    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thank selfcritical. I rarely visit forums, but have subscribed to this thread, so if anyone posts questions, etc. I'll see and respond. Good training to everyone!

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