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  1. GoldenJonas is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    5/02/2008 9:01am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Ratings and You - Read This Before Posting Your Review

    Dear Aggrieved School Member/Owner:

    Please understand that our reviewing system is a) meant to work off factual criteria and b) geared toward the needs of those looking for alive, full contact training. Understand as well that our review system is not Olympic scoring and a 5-9 is an average to above average rating, not an insult. Finally, please also consider that our rating system tries to do the difficult job of creating a range that can encompass every school.

    So far the only other review to net several deserved "10s" is a member's review of the American Top Team training facility in Coconut Creek, Florida. This complex is a 10000+ square foot mecca for aspiring pro fighters with a full weight yard, a matted instruction surface, rings, cages, full lockers, parking, etc. Further, that school has grappling and BJJ instructors who are multi-time world champions, Muay Thai, MMA and Boxing instructors who hold titles in many different organizations or have been members of their respective US Olympic team at one time or another. That's what your school is rated against and should be compared to when you think your striking or grappling instruction is a 10.

    The only other tens I would anticipate handing out would be too say, an OTC facility or a large college's boxing or wrestling program - a 'ten' implies a facility that is top of the line in every, single way. Most people don't want to pay for a 10, and most people aren't dedicated to training in the way 10s require of their students. A rating less then 10 is not damning, it is normal.

    Our system is meant to run from 1-2 (don't train here for this category, i.e., don't go to a exclusively BJJ school if you want to learn good striking skills) to 9-10 (train here for going pro in full contact) - your neighborhood karate center getting 4-7s shows the system to be functioning. People who are your chosen market - mothers with children, ordinary community members who need/want exercise and some self defense - are not going to consider your school if your own rating indicates it is geared toward professional fighters. Likewise if people looking for what a 10 offers in a school come to visit yours, will they find what they want, or will they waste their time and your own?

    If your school gets a review you don't agree with, you aren't going to counter it by 1) pointlessly arguing with the reviewer about his motivation or 2) saying "ALL LIES COME SEE" - if you don't teach full contact, tell why. If you do something out of tradition or respect for your lineage, explain and contextualize it. If your view of the school and particular aspect of training within your school differs explain why you view differs and ensure your rating is consistent with these guidelines. Remember, a low number rating is simply a classification of the curriculum taught, NOT a derogatory statement about your school.

    Use the criticism as an opportunity to explain the value you place on things like tradition, instead. If you feel a reviewer omitted or missed something, post that information along with your own, honest, review instead of giving yourself "high" scores which may not actually reflect your facility or curriculum and may actually misinform a consumer who is considering going to your school.

    I hope this explanation helps you understand why you received the rating you did and motivates you to revise your ratings honestly, in keeping with our guidelines.


    Aliveness:

    1: No sparring/contact, performance demonstration/forms only.
    2-3: Compliant partner drills, board breaking, point sparring
    4-5: Light contact continuous sparring (negligible pain/risk).
    6-7: Medium contact with excessive safety gear.
    8-9: Hard contact with reasonable safety gear and/or limited to one range of fighting (standup/grappling).
    10: Regular (monthly or less) skill testing via full contact, full range fighting, minimum safety equipment.

    Equipment:

    1: What equipment?
    2-4: Bring your own.
    5: Basic relevant essentials, may be heavily used.
    6-7: Respectable equipment, somewhat worn.
    8-9: Excellent, new condition, latest gear.
    10: Superior equipment (full ring/cage, etc)

    Gym Size:

    1: Bedroom in your parents' house.
    2: We train in the garage.
    3: We train in the basement.
    4: But it's a freakin' big basement.
    5: We train at the park
    6: Actual dedicated commercial space, somewhat small but functional.
    7: +2
    8: Plenty of room to roll/spar without tripping over people
    9: 5,000-10,000 sq ft.
    10: 10,000 sq ft.

    Instructor/Student Ratio:


    1: I am my own instructor.
    2: I've met the lead instructor, once.
    3: I see my lead instructor every class, through the window to his office.
    4-5: Instructor opens class, senior students complete it.
    6-7: large class but instructor is accessible and oversees most classes.
    8-9: Smaller classes, instructor or highly qualified (master level) assistant instructors in small groups.
    10: Highly personal attention from top instructors.

    Atmosphere/Attitude:


    1-5: Everyone's a douchebag/tough guy/pansy to corresponding degrees and/or drama.
    6-7: Fairly impersonal, various cliques or noticeable drama.
    8-10: Open, supportive but challenging, bizarro hippy ass-beating love fest.

    Striking Instruction:

    1-3: No striking.
    4-5: Striking for punching/kicking only and/or limited purposes (demonstration, highly restrictive sport).
    6-7: Comprehensive striking (all ranges) or superior single range striking with success in local/regional competition or practical application.
    8-9: Pressure-tested, full range striking and proven success in limited restriction, top level competitions or high level self defense situations.
    10: Superior excellence including A-level competitors/instructors

    Grappling Instruction:


    1-3: No grappling. Anti-grappling.
    4-5: Limited single sub-range (standing, clinch, ground only).
    6-7: Comprehensive grappling with success in local/regional competition or practical application (LEO, military).
    8-9: Pressure-tested, full range grappling and proven success in limited restriction, top level competitions or high level self defense situations.
    10: Superior excellence including A-level competitors/instructors

    Weapons:

    1: No contact, performance demonstration/forms only.
    2-3: Compliant partner drills and preset encounters
    4-5: Light continuous alive sparring (negligible pain/risk).
    6-7: Medium contact with excessive safety gear. (some pain and/or wide variety of realistic weapons)
    8: Hard contact with reasonable safety gear (pain and/or some blood)
    9: 8 but with various weapons. Tournament winners, proven success in limited restriction, top level competitions or high level self defense situations.
    10: Superior excellence. Regular (quarterly or less) skill testing via full contact, full range fighting, minimum safety equipment. (Pain, Blood, bone breaking and/or death)
  2. Domite is offline
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    blotter art.

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    Posted On:
    5/14/2008 10:14pm


     Style: San Shou

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What exactly does "full contact fight team" mean in the context of the review?

    Would the school having a few guys who compete ammy count?
  3. GoldenJonas is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    5/15/2008 9:04am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "A few guys that fight ammy" is not really a "Fight Team" per se.......but, where those guys wear school merchandise, have the school name on their fight shorts, etc..I can see the argument to say that your school has a "fight team" even though they don't have some cool name like the "Golden Monkey MMA Gym Fight Team" or have an ATT or MFS flag behind them at their matches.

    So, if your gym has guys that almost exclusively train at your gym, compete regularly (MMA, Boxing, Muay Thai, San Shou, etc, etc.), and wear your gyms logo or name on their fight attire, than I would vote YES, your gym has a fight team.......sort of.

    Just be sure to explain the depth of the team in your review.
  4. 8bit is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/08/2008 1:49am


     Style: wing chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmm, the weapons rating system is suspect. So if mr. retired special ops vietnam vet were to rate his battlefield-tested military combat course, he would have to allow shooting and stabbing students in order to get a ten in weapons?

    Also, the atmosphere scale is a good idea, but not well thought-out.

    How can "bring your own" in equipment hold multiple rating levels?

    What do you rate in gym size for someone who constantly changes locations?
    Last edited by 8bit; 8/08/2008 1:55am at .
  5. GoldenJonas is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/08/2008 8:02am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 8bit
    Hmm, the weapons rating system is suspect. So if mr. retired special ops vietnam vet were to rate his battlefield-tested military combat course, he would have to allow shooting and stabbing students in order to get a ten in weapons?
    Ummm, no. A "martial art" that involves the use of a Glok .45 is not really something that would fit into this rating ruberic.

    Otherwise, the rating scale is fine. Admittedly, it is not perfect and any dipshit can toss around ridiculous hypotheticals to poke holes in it.

    Not that I'm calling you, specifically, a dipshit...I'm just sayin'.

    Quote Originally Posted by 8bit
    Also, the atmosphere scale is a good idea, but not well thought-out.
    I'm open to suggestions...

    Quote Originally Posted by 8bit
    How can "bring your own" in equipment hold multiple rating levels?
    Because we couldn't think of anything else to go into the 2, 3, and 4 spots on the scale. "Bring your own" is a catch-all for that end of the scale.

    Quote Originally Posted by 8bit
    What do you rate in gym size for someone who constantly changes locations?
    How big are the locations they move to? Figure that out, and rate it accordingly; or provide an explanation as to the special circumstances in your review.
  6. 8bit is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/08/2008 10:16am


     Style: wing chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenJonas
    Ummm, no. A "martial art" that involves the use of a Glok .45 is not really something that would fit into this rating ruberic.

    Otherwise, the rating scale is fine. Admittedly, it is not perfect and any dipshit can toss around ridiculous hypotheticals to poke holes in it.

    Not that I'm calling you, specifically, a dipshit...I'm just sayin'.

    So said commando was also very fond of his hook swords and being the eccentric, he took them on many an operation and used them several times leading him to perfect a superior training method in hood sword quan. In order to get a 10, his students must routinely gore each other? It kind of breaks the ordinality of the 1-10 scale system if 10 is very suddenly a bad thing for training, while 9 is ideal.
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/08/2008 10:46am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Go watch a dog brothers weapon training video and get back to us.
  8. 8bit is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/08/2008 11:17am


     Style: wing chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake
    Go watch a dog brothers weapon training video and get back to us.
    There is no doubt that the dog brothers deserve a 10 in the aliveness category regardless of how the scale is justified. A good question would be under what circumstances, and whether it was possible for more dangerous types of weapons to deserve a ten in this category. Think bladed weapons. Maybe others qualify, but bladed are the most obvious.
  9. GoldenJonas is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/08/2008 2:22pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kendo, full contact escrima, etc, etc. You don't have to use a blade and kill someone to show you are proficient under full resistance with the Sword.

    I would choose a Kendo expert as opposed to an Iaido expert if I am forced to go into a full contact match in some back alley with my Party Katana or Hook Sword.

    Kendo = 8-10
    Iaido = 1-3
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/08/2008 2:44pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 8bit
    There is no doubt that the dog brothers deserve a 10 in the aliveness category regardless of how the scale is justified. A good question would be under what circumstances, and whether it was possible for more dangerous types of weapons to deserve a ten in this category. Think bladed weapons. Maybe others qualify, but bladed are the most obvious.
    Okay here is a bladed weapon that I'd rate a 8-10 BASED on your earlier hypothetical. I have to see what the rules and targets are, or it to be based on a 10 for sure. Yet, they are striking the head, legs, mid section and various other parts.

    YouTube - Jianshu at Wutang Tournament




    YouTube - Open Sword Sparring Competition - Part 1/2

    This would be a 8-10 IMO. They use less padding but, the targets are less defined and seem to be in a more controlled area.
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