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  1. krazy kaju is offline
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    I'm not witty enough for this custom title.

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2008 9:30pm


     Style: In Hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bopinator
    Has anyone pointed out that position gives you control. HArd to control a guy if he in side control on top of you. Easier to control an opponent if you'r eon top of him in side control.


    I think I'm on a role with these pics.

    In any case, from what I've read on these forums, catch guys usually practice for the pin and whatnot and don't know their guard from mount, etc. Like, they'll try to kimura you in your guard. LOL.
  2. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2008 9:49pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't think that catch wrestling is the future of MMA. There aren't any catch wrestlers, anywhere. They're like unicorns.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  3. krazy kaju is offline
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    I'm not witty enough for this custom title.

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2008 9:56pm


     Style: In Hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This thread is teh fail:
    GUIZ THIS IS LIEK MY SIGNACHOOR LOLOL

    :icon_roll
  4. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2008 11:50pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Anyone wanna bet Parlati comes back posting will all guns blazing throwing insults that involve Gracie's semen? That seems to be his favorite modus operandi whenever **** doesn't turn the way he wanted.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  5. Victor Parlati is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/27/2008 1:24am


     Style:  Wing Chun & Catch W.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Not that riding with the hips lower and therefore spending less time with your weight on your knees will make a catch wrestler slow - but it is easier and faster, for example, to go from side control to full mount as it is done in BJJ by first being on your knees." (VP)

    Followed by this response:

    "Who told you this? The entire reason for being on a knee or two is to block the repositioning into side control, NOT to provide a lighter ride. Wrestling style with both legs out is a slightly heavier ride, but you'll be back in guard in about two seconds."


    ***IS TO BLOCK THE repositioning into side control?! Would you like to reconsider that statement? You already have side control - and one of the main reasons why you are on your knees is in order to attempt to transition into mount. What are you talking about?

    .......................................



    (Originally Posted by Victor Parlati) "Such as: It rides heavy and prefers to pin the man down by making him carry your weight more so than BJJ - which prefers the mobility that a lighter ride provides in order to transition from one position to the other as it follows the BJJ flowchart."

    Followed by this response:

    "This is wholly incorrect regarding BJJ. There is no 'lighter ride' in BJJ. You are taught to focus all the weight that's possible from top position to make it harder for the bottom man to escape."


    ***Two questions here: First, Are you saying that one of the biggest reasons why you're on your knees is NOT because it helps to make a quicker and easier transition into mount position? And secondly, being on your knees gives him more space to manuever than not being on your kness, does it not?

    .............................................


    (Originally Posted by Victor Parlati) "And then there's the whole issue of the guard position. Catch will use the bottom scissors (guard) but the preference is not to stay down on one's back any longer than you have to...meaning the strategy is to work escape routes first and foremost (and if a submission is possible WHILE working to escape back to one's feet or to a reversal - fine)..."

    Followed by this response:


    "The guard in BJJ is first and foremost about getting out of the bottom position via sweep, if you can catch a submission during this process then good on you. That is why the guard is ranked lower than ALL the top positions in BJJ's hierarchy."

    ***Of course it's ranked lower, which is why in catch the first priority is to work an escape route - for which a sweep is just one way.

    ........................................


    "Also, I was unaware that Randy Couture, Georges St. Pierre, Matt Hughes and Shawn Sherk were catch wrestlers. I must have missed the memo."


    ***YEAH, I missed it too. Since no one ever said that about any of these guys. Read that part of my first post on this thread again.

    ......................................


    "Has anyone pointed out that position gives you control. Hard to control a guy if he in side control on top of you. Easier to control an opponent if you're on top of him in side control."


    ***OF COURSE it's usually easier to control him if you have a top "position" - and no one is saying that better position doesn't usually give you a chance to have better control.

    But what I am saying is that in catch you don't work under the impression that you must - FIRST AND FOREMOST - attain a superior position in order to have control and go after a submission safely. Attaining a "top dominant" position is not a prerequisite for attempting a submission hold. Very, very often holds are put on during a scramble - as a means of attaining control (or securing a better position - or both, perhaps).

    Not saying that this doesn't ever happen in BJJ. Am saying that is happens MUCH MORE FREQUENTLY in catch wrestling - due to the catch-any-hold-you-can philosophy and the numerous amounts of submissions that exist in catch.

    And btw...sambo is a real hybrid that hass always traditionally borrowed from catch - and not just from judo. Especially the case with leglocks.
    Last edited by Victor Parlati; 4/27/2008 10:46am at .
  6. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    4/27/2008 1:41am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That was a typo from him.
    The purpose of that knee is to block your opponent from REGAINING GUARD. But that in itself is a red herring as once you are good at it you can block the hips using your own hip without having your knee up. I prefer to block the hip with my arm for easy transitions to north south.

    Many aspects of BJJ and Catch are complimentary.
  7. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    4/27/2008 8:55am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Please learn the proper use of the quote function. Your post is difficult to read.

    Quote Originally Posted by Victor Parlati
    ***Two questions here: First, Are you saying that one of the biggest reasons why you're on your kness is NOT because it helps to make a quicker and easier transition into mount position? And secondly, being on your knees gives him more space to manuever than not being on your kness, does it not?
    1. Correct, that is not what I'm saying. You can also block them by "hipping in" (lower and turn one hip to block their escape attempt) instead of using your knees.

    2. Being on your knees should NOT give him more space. If it does then your butt is too high.


    Quote Originally Posted by Victor Parlati
    ***YEAH, I missed it too. Since no one ever said that about any of these guys. Read that part of the first post again.
    Okay, I misread that.

    It's apparent by your posts that you are a novice grappler.
  8. Victor Parlati is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/27/2008 10:53am


     Style:  Wing Chun & Catch W.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, you can also block him by hipping in - and it is taught in some catch circles. Personally, I like having my knee near his lower body triangulated down to the floor (and with the lower leg/foot bent away from his lower body so he can't trap it). This makes you lower, and therefore he carries more of your weight, than if you were on on that knee directly...

    and with the leg/foot near his head held back - with being completely off that knee. Again: he carries much more of your weight this way. Hipping in can often result in the faster man winning the battle, so to speak - as he might quickly snake a leg under (or over) your leg near his lower body before you get a chance to hip in.

    And yes, being directly on your knees - BY DEFINITION - gives the man caught underneath more space to work with. You're wrong about that.

    Finally, I find it amazing that, given the flowchart positional strategy used in BJJ - thereby making the transition from side control to mount such a big part of the BJJ game...amazing that you deny that this a big factor in why being on the knees is taught from this position. It's so obvious that this part of the overall design and tactics is used to help carry out the big picture philosophy of position...position...position.
    Last edited by Victor Parlati; 4/27/2008 11:06am at .
  9. jnp is offline
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    Titanium laced beauty

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    Posted On:
    4/27/2008 11:36am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ, wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Victor Parlati
    And yes, being directly on your knees - BY DEFINITION - gives the man caught underneath more space to work with. You're wrong about that.
    Okay, I wrestled for six years and have trained in BJJ for 7 years this summer. Therefore, I base my opinions off of almost 13 years of grappling experience, but you're right, I could be wrong.

    How long have you trained in grappling?
  10. Victor Parlati is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/27/2008 1:38pm


     Style:  Wing Chun & Catch W.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm not going there. And I'm not saying that you're not an experienced grappler...I'm just saying that since you're higher off the ground when you're directly on your knees then CLEARLY the man underneath has more space to work with than if you were lower. Also, there's less pressure on his chest helping to pin him down. The more you can lower your hips when you're on top - the harder it is for him to maneuver other than trying to bridge.

    This is basic common sense.
    Last edited by Victor Parlati; 4/27/2008 6:56pm at .
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