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  1. danielson is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/25/2008 1:16pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I trained for 5 weeks at Seans gym in Phuket. I find it hard to believe that he would make a blanket statement like that. If you have ever been to Thailand it is fairly obvious that many furongs fight worked fights. Even though he had some business dispute with the owner of Tiger I never heard him say a bad word about any of the trainers or their training practices. I actually met him in America and was origionally planning on training at Tiger until I met him. Even though he knew this he sold me on his gym rather than trashing the others, I was completely satisfied with my experience.
  2. danielson is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/25/2008 1:20pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by Deevolution
    He stated that the other gyms in Phuket put their students into worked fights and some of the trainers have fabricated records.

    It seems to me that almost every fighter in Thailand has a fabricated record. I don't think this is something they do to be fraudulent I think that when you have so many fights it is kinda hard to keep exact track of the fights. I have seen many gyms advertise that their fighters have 100 fights 150 fights 400 fights, I always found it hard to believe that so many fighters landed on such round numbers.
  3. jamesg1980 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/25/2008 10:51pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by danielson
    It seems to me that almost every fighter in Thailand has a fabricated record. I don't think this is something they do to be fraudulent I think that when you have so many fights it is kinda hard to keep exact track of the fights. I have seen many gyms advertise that their fighters have 100 fights 150 fights 400 fights, I always found it hard to believe that so many fighters landed on such round numbers.
    Thats absolutely bang on. Once they've had more than about 20 fights they just stop counting and always round it to the nearest 100 / 50. Plus they don't really seem to keep track of how many they win lose.

    Anyway muay thais not like some martial arts where maybe all the instructor does is issue instructions and you never actually see them do anything. Pretty much all the trainers fight fairly regularly, they all spar with students, hold pads (which isn't as easy as it looks) etc so there'd be no point lying about your record as you'd be found out straight away.

    As for fixing fights. Farangs generally (not always) fight thais who are half their size, many of whom (not all, in fairness) are just fighting for the money and not loking to win. I've seen thais take a dive, feign injuries etc but why would a gym bother paying a fighter to lose when theres about a 95% chance their fighters going to win anyway? I t doesn't make sense.

    I suspect that no-one has lied about their record, no-one has tried to fix fights and that the current and former owners of TMT are just slinging mud at one another.
  4. Tenchu is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/26/2008 2:37am


     Style: Muay Thai. Ansatsuken.

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesg1980
    Yes he has been accused of setting up fights and paying people to lose - by you.

    Just as you have been accused of setting up fights and paying people to lose - by him.
    Are you fucking stupid or what? I did not accuse him, I repeated what I had heard for the sake of the thread. Retard.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesg1980
    Prior to the gym shutting down it had about 9 students training, as Sean claimed he never allowed more than 9 students there at a time anyway, I don't think it was doing too badly.
    If you could see it now, it is dwarfed by Tiger. And this is the point where it has shut down. Tiger is right next to it, and litterallt 5 times the size and better equiped. I fail to see this had nothing to do with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by danielson
    If you have ever been to Thailand it is fairly obvious that many furongs fight worked fights.
    If that hapens it is not professional fighting you are talking about, but small fights that dont mean **** anyway. Many white men fight in the big BKK stadiums like Lumpini and OneSongchais ring, they are NOT worked, or if they are and it was found about the promoter would be outta a business and the fighter outta a country. Thailand has a reliable professional curcuit.

    Quote Originally Posted by danielson
    It seems to me that almost every fighter in Thailand has a fabricated record. I don't think this is something they do to be fraudulent I think that when you have so many fights it is kinda hard to keep exact track of the fights. I have seen many gyms advertise that their fighters have 100 fights 150 fights 400 fights, I always found it hard to believe that so many fighters landed on such round numbers.
    I can't reply with 100% certainty, but you might not be taking one thing into account. I have met some old guys who boast over 200 fights. Are you aware they are counting the fights they did when they were 14 and 15 as well??? A lot of little boys start Muay Thai young, and do little fights in small village rings and in shoddy rings under old bridges and stuff in BKK as well. This is less common now, but if an old guy tells you he has done this many fights it is not impossible, esp. when he dont have the memory toprove it and you introduce yourself to him 10 times in 1 day! Look at it like this: a fighter can do 1 fight a month, that is 12 a year, so to do 200 fights, that is ... whoa, 16 years... So if they did start at 14, they would have to fight every month until they were 30... ... ... ... I dunno, maybe you are right. As for the round numbers, yeah, they round it up a little, but no guy can mistake to round 37 fights up to 150, so...
    Last edited by Tenchu; 5/26/2008 2:43am at .
  5. jamesg1980 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/26/2008 3:17am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenchu
    Are you fucking stupid or what? I did not accuse him, I repeated what I had heard for the sake of the thread. Retard.



    .


    a) I was addressing the guy who wrote the comment, i clearly quoted the entire comment with the name of the person, Will, who had made it at the bottom. In no way did i address you, mention your name or suggest that you were the person who had accused him. In fact your name never even featured on my thread.


    b)Thai's start fighting as young as 5 or 6 but if it is a professional fight under professional rules, which it normally is except they fight 3 rounds instead of 5, then it counts as far as I'm concerned.

    c) Tigerpitt / chalong chai actually did quite well out of tiger as the small minority of people who didn't like the training at tiger tended to end up there.

    Chalong chai shut down because Sean and his wife Bo, who owned the gym, split up, Sean moved back to the states and Bo decided she didn't want to run the gym anymore.

    Tenchu I am sorry that I caused confusion with my previous post or if it offended you in anyway, it was not my intention.
  6. jamesg1980 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/26/2008 3:22am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenchu

    The place would not have gotten customers come back after the first stay, anyway. It had only 1 ring, several bags, and really no room for training larger numbers of students... It was too small.
    It wasn't trying to train large numbers of students, that was the point. And it got quite a few return customers as a result. At one point in december i was the only student and there were three trainers. Not good from the gyms point of view but fantastic from mine as i got one on one tuition every single day.

    You are assuming a lot without ever having trained at the place. I've got nothing against tiger and i might even try and train there at some point i n which case i will try and introduce myself to you. And if i do train at tiger and like it then i will defend it against people who criticize it in much the same way i am defending the (now extinct) chalong chai.

    I'm really not looking for an argument here...
  7. Tenchu is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/26/2008 3:24am


     Style: Muay Thai. Ansatsuken.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jamesg1980
    a) I was addressing the guy who wrote the comment, i clearly quoted the entire comment with the name of the person, Will, who had made it at the bottom. In no way did i address you, mention your name or suggest that you were the person who had accused him. In fact your name never even featured on my thread.


    b)Thai's start fighting as young as 5 or 6 but if it is a professional fight under professional rules, which it normally is except they fight 3 rounds instead of 5, then it counts as far as I'm concerned.

    c) Tigerpitt / chalong chai actually did quite well out of tiger as the small minority of people who didn't like the training at tiger tended to end up there.

    Chalong chai shut down because Sean and his wife Bo, who owned the gym, split up, Sean moved back to the states and Bo decided she didn't want to run the gym anymore.

    Tenchu I am sorry that I caused confusion with my previous post or if it offended you in anyway, it was not my intention.
    Oh yeah, right, okay. That is fine. Your post was poor constructed then. Why did you have the PM I got from the TMT owner, and then start talking that? I dunno.

    Yeah well, like I said, the TMT owner, Will, said what he said in the PM. I was never told he split with his wife.
  8. jamesg1980 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/26/2008 6:47am

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    No worries.

    I think you have to take everything that will has to say about chalong chai, and everything sean has to say about TMT with a pinch of salt.

    Those guys really really, really don't like each other.
  9. danielson is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/26/2008 11:07am


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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenchu
    Are you fucking stupid or what? I did not accuse him, I repeated what I had heard for the sake of the thread. Retard.

    If you could see it now, it is dwarfed by Tiger. And this is the point where it has shut down. Tiger is right next to it, and litterallt 5 times the size and better equiped. I fail to see this had nothing to do with it.

    If that hapens it is not professional fighting you are talking about, but small fights that dont mean **** anyway. Many white men fight in the big BKK stadiums like Lumpini and OneSongchais ring, they are NOT worked, or if they are and it was found about the promoter would be outta a business and the fighter outta a country. Thailand has a reliable professional curcuit.

    I can't reply with 100% certainty, but you might not be taking one thing into account. I have met some old guys who boast over 200 fights. Are you aware they are counting the fights they did when they were 14 and 15 as well??? A lot of little boys start Muay Thai young, and do little fights in small village rings and in shoddy rings under old bridges and stuff in BKK as well. This is less common now, but if an old guy tells you he has done this many fights it is not impossible, esp. when he dont have the memory toprove it and you introduce yourself to him 10 times in 1 day! Look at it like this: a fighter can do 1 fight a month, that is 12 a year, so to do 200 fights, that is ... whoa, 16 years... So if they did start at 14, they would have to fight every month until they were 30... ... ... ... I dunno, maybe you are right. As for the round numbers, yeah, they round it up a little, but no guy can mistake to round 37 fights up to 150, so...
    Agree about most of what you said and about what 1980 is saying also.

    ~The bulk of fights in Thailand are not at places like Lumpini, they are at small makeshift stadiums as I am sure you know. The work is usually done like 1980 said by a huge size mismatch.

    ~I'm sure they are taking all of their lifetime fights into account and some they had in their dreams and some they had in the school yard and just rounding to the closest one. I don't fault them for that it seems to be the norm, they aren't violating their countries standards for the sport as far as I can tell. I yeah, I origioanlly thought it was impossible to have fights in the 200-500 range until I met some old school trainers who needed multiple introductions and often just staired off into space when they weren't doing something directly realated to MT.


    I don't think this topic qualifies of BS at all. If Sean and Will had a business dispute that is one thing, the quality of training or of the instructors is another. I have never trainined that hard in my life and it was do in great part to their being between 1-2 trainers at all times for every student. When I got to the gym that morning at least one of them was looking specifically for me and kept his eye directly on me the entire session. I was pushed to my breaking point more times than I ever have been in my life, When I got back to america I felt like I could run through walls.
  10. Tenchu is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/28/2008 12:04am


     Style: Muay Thai. Ansatsuken.

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by danielson
    I origioanlly thought it was impossible to have fights in the 200-500 range until I met some old school trainers who needed multiple introductions and often just staired off into space when they weren't doing something directly realated to MT.
    Yeah, LOL, that is what I think. If anyone wants to know howcome they get to Muay Thai Institute, and "Why are these crazy old men teaching me who can't remember my name or face from one minute to the next?" It is because they are former pro... I dont doubt that however many fights they have done, even if it is 100, and not 300, I still think they can merit saying whatever the **** they like simply because they took such a beating with old school rules and clearly have done a fuckload of brutal fights...

    Quote Originally Posted by danielson
    I don't think this topic qualifies of BS at all. If Sean and Will had a business dispute that is one thing, the quality of training or of the instructors is another. I have never trainined that hard in my life and it was do in great part to their being between 1-2 trainers at all times for every student. When I got to the gym that morning at least one of them was looking specifically for me and kept his eye directly on me the entire session. I was pushed to my breaking point more times than I ever have been in my life, When I got back to america I felt like I could run through walls.
    Yeah, well, I was just repeating what I heard. I am not pointing any fingers or claiming fact. TMT, even if they do do dodgey business, it is the best training I have seen in Thailand, and I have been many places. So that surpasses everything else. It is a Muay Thai Wonderland at TMT in Phuket.
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