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  1. jdinca is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2008 10:18am


     Style: Chinese Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow. The front kick is a very basic kick and should be taught consistently from day one. Sounds like your school has a consistency issue.

    As for the foot extension issue, it's a matter of muscle control. It took me a couple of years to be able to do it properly with consistency.

    Try this excercise, use a bar so you don't have to worry about balance. Chamber the kick with the the foot extended and the toes pulled back. Slowly extend the leg, maintaining the foot position. If at some point your foot pulls up, stop, extend it and continue. Maintain this on the rechamber as well. It takes time and effort but it can be done. YOu can also stand flat footed and raise up on your tip toes. You're using the same muscles that you use to control the foot position in the kick.

    It's also important not to kick any higher than your body is ready for. If you don't have the strength and muscle control, a higher kick won't be executed properly. Start at groin level, develop the control and then raise your targeting once you can do it properly at the lower level.
  2. Scott Larson is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2008 10:23am


     Style: Ba Zheng Dao Quan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What is your comfort level with the other kicks?
  3. E-Van is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2008 11:10am


     Style: bjj

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by rordogs
    thats what you get for learning karate.
    And this is what WE get for piece of **** lurkers who decide to post.
  4. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2008 11:23am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I personally believe the slow kick extension exercise has no place in modern training. It looks pretty cool but dynamic flexibility is different than static flexibility and slow movements will never develop fast twich muscle. Just kick shields and bags until you find a good angle for your toes.

    As far as the effective-ness of snap front kicks goes. I won a knockdown karate match with one. I kicked the guy right in the chin and he took a knee. YMMV
  5. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2008 11:30am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by G-Off
    I'm confused as to the point of the front snap kick, btw. Lyoto Machida basically knocked out Rich Franklin with one, but that was with the shin and other than that you rarely see it used, much less as an effective kick. I mean, the teep is there to push, so the snap kick you'd think would be for damage but it's a weak kick.
    I had to go look this fight up. That is not the kind of front kick I'm talking about. I am refering to front kicks that intentionally strike with the ball of the foot. I honestly can't remember the name of the kick that Machida used. We typically trained that using the instep and I always called it the groin kick because that is the only target i'd be comfortable kicking that way.

    6:14 in this video for a great replay of a Front Kick KO in K-1 Max
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoJhMYbrFcU
    Last edited by WhiteShark; 4/22/2008 11:36am at .
  6. jdinca is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2008 11:37am


     Style: Chinese Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark
    I personally believe the slow kick extension exercise has no place in modern training. It looks pretty cool but dynamic flexibility is different than static flexibility and slow movements will never develop fast twich muscle. Just kick shields and bags until you find a good angle for your toes.

    As far as the effective-ness of snap front kicks goes. I won a knockdown karate match with one. I kicked the guy right in the chin and he took a knee. YMMV
    You don't think there's a place for both? I see one as developing strength and muscle memory and the other developing twitch reflex.
  7. jdinca is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2008 11:39am


     Style: Chinese Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark
    6:14 in this video for a great replay of a Front Kick KO in K-1 Max
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoJhMYbrFcU
    Nice front thrust kick FTW. Looks like it caught him in the throat?
  8. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2008 11:45am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Moving your leg slowly doesn't develop strength. If I had to give any credit at all to that drill it would be for the balance training. But again dynamic balance is different than static balance.

    Part of my disdain for that drill comes from the fact that their is no practical way to apply it to a Muay Thai round kick. If I can't even figure out a way to make it work with my most powerful kick then how much power is it really developing?
  9. jdinca is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2008 11:55am


     Style: Chinese Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark
    Moving your leg slowly doesn't develop strength. If I had to give any credit at all to that drill it would be for the balance training. But again dynamic balance is different than static balance.
    You're right, I mistated it a bit. It's not best for strength but it does develop muscle memory. I have students do the drill while holding the bar, so they can focus on controlling the foot. That's it's primary purpose. I'll do something different if I want to focus on balance.


    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark
    Part of my disdain for that drill comes from the fact that their is no practical way to apply it to a Muay Thai round kick. If I can't even figure out a way to make it work with my most powerful kick then how much power is it really developing?

    I do see your point. From my perspective, if you want to develop technique and muscle control, the slow drill has it's place. If you want to develop power, kick the bag. But, proper technique does add to power. The slow drill on the roundhouse is also good for developing that funky little muscle on your hip that only kickers really develop.

    There does come a point where you reach the level the slow drill isn't nearly as effective. For the newer student, I do feel it has it's place but it is a personal thing.
  10. biner is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2008 12:15pm


     Style: TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    The way that I teach it

    I teach the front kick in a series of progressive variations to enforce the specifics that I'm looking for in the kick. I teach beginners to lift the knee, pull the toes back, stab at their target with the ball of their foot, reholser, and then set the foot down. this gets the mechanics. I do this slowly in the air to get the motion, then do it faster against a target/bag to get the power/memory. I next teach a jump-front kick that allows them to focus on speed a little more, then I teach an exchange front kick that teaches them that the kick comes from the hips as well as the knee. I then add variations with steps, etc to drill the balance, etc needed to properly execute the kick, gauge distance, etc. All of this progresses over a few months for adults, longer for the kids. The use of bags and targets really helps fix the floppy foot syndrome that is common with the lazier kids and adults. When they kick the bag with their toes, they tend to correct themselves pretty quick. It can be confusing though, especially when an more advanced student is watching me teach a kid, they aren't seeing me teach the hips that they learned. When a kid watches me teach a more advanced student, they may get lost because they aren't even aware that they have hips...
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