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  1. #41
    ChickenBeakFist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by illegalusername View Post
    This seems awfully familiar.

    Pages 1-3: Various bullies post exclamations of hilarity.
    somewhere around pages 4-7 a newbie with his username consisting of "tampa, ninja, quest" and various numbers will post the following

    For 15 pages onwards:
    Questions are asked and subsequently ignored. TAMPANINJAWHUT will fixate on a single poster. Gong sau will be declared. Wherein the thread will have two conclusions.

    1. A bully goes to gym X, takes video of himself bumbling around for a while.
    2. rah wah honor insults honor thread fades to obscurity.
    Quote Originally Posted by CMS54 View Post
    I train at Tampa Quest, and am a 1st degree black belt. Some points:

    1. From what I have seen all the Quest Centers have different training styles and do not teach the same curriculum. It should not be the case, but it is. From what I have heard Tampa Quest teaches the art much differently the other Quest Centers. Not better or worse, just different. My point being: You cannot judge all Quest Centers based on the experience at one particular school.

    2. The art of To Shin Do, as taught at Tampa Quest is effective. There are some katas that may appear to look like "movie style fighting," but the core techniques being taught in those katas are effective. I am a petite woman, who will never been able to overpower someone with size or strength. I have been able to use the art to defend myself against larger attackers... outside the dojo, in a real life threatening situation... where it counts.

    3. Everyone has their opinions. Everyone is an expert. Everyone's preferred martial art is better. All these internet rants and raves (even mine) should be taken with a grain of salt. :)

    I am glad to see people taking an interest in martial arts, regardless of their preferred style.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by nightowl View Post
    Found an intresting site for a Tampa quest center:http://www.tampaquestma.com/

    Outside of the BS history of this Hayes created system(http://www.tampaquestma.com/history.htm) and an instructor listed as being a blackbelt in 'Bushido' (http://www.tampaquestma.com/teachers.htm), it seems to me to be a slightly more LARPy version of the Bujinkan more than anything. Anyone had experience with it? I know the basic history- an offshoot of the Bujinkan started by Hayes- since Hayes is often credited with helping to start the Ninjer phenomenon (and from the clips and crazy books of his I've seen I wouldn't put it past him) I wouldn't be surprised to see bad things from it.


    Then I saw these clips:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=[yt]VBnBIKh78Cs

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=[yt]YGbkUQUFnx4

    Dear Lord....what hast the ninjerisms of Hatsumi and his disciples wrought?
    I am very tempted t go down and check this out LMAO I always wanted to go check out one of these ninja schools.

  3. #43
    Hiro Protagonist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunx2z View Post
    I am very tempted t go down and check this out LMAO I always wanted to go check out one of these ninja schools.

  4. #44
    Hiro Protagonist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lebell View Post
    the way the guy lets his katana rest is acceptable.
    notice how if it would be a live sword (for real sharp) it would be the blunt edge making skin contact.

    there are some techniques in which you hold the katana in both hands, on on the handle, the other near the point, the blunt side resting in your digital space.
    This way you can bash it against your opponent or his sword and work around his sword, or you can use that particular hold to block a very strong strike.
    Thanks! That's interesting. Resting the sword on one's shoulder was banned by all the teachers I trained this with over the years, but if that is acceptable by other schools, no prob.

  5. #45
    Just waiting for the paperboy. supporting member
    Lebell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by This is Sparta! View Post
    Thanks! That's interesting. Resting the sword on one's shoulder was banned by all the teachers I trained this with over the years, but if that is acceptable by other schools, no prob.
    over the shoulder?
    you rest it over the biceps area.
    the idea behind it is as far as i know, you have some base in case you get a blow on your dword.
    it's also a position from which you can stab.

    i'd never use it personally.
    with japanese swords i played the kendo approach, so both hands, point aiming at opponents throat.
    no fancy stuff.
    i've also done some iaido but didnt like it too much.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lebell View Post
    you rest it over the biceps area.
    Sorry, my fault, should have been more precise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lebell View Post
    the idea behind it is as far as i know, you have some base in case you get a blow on your dword.
    Also, I have found that this lay-back technique is not very practical,
    because when you receive a blow, you cannot maneouver as easily.

    Furthermore, unless hit by a clubb, anyone should be able to parry a downward strike without using his bodyweight as a factor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lebell View Post
    it's also a position from which you can stab.
    Though the tsuba would probably trap the stabbing move, I think.

    Loved Kendo as a youngster, when I did Aikido. Ended up leaving Aikido and learning swordfighting, from a few "serious" SoCA people and so on...

    Still prefer the Katana/bokken to any other weapon.
    "Rurouni Kenshin" has worked on me...

  7. #47

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    Buji/to student

    Quote Originally Posted by DrX View Post
    I would say it's somewhere in between. Before I say anything else, let me state that I am NOT speaking for anyone associated with Quest centers, and I have no idea if a Quest owner or student would agree with me at all (although I think many probably would). I'm just giving my opinion as someone familar with martial arts who's never been a Quest student but has spent a lot of time at a Quest center.

    A lot of the focus of To Shin Do, certainly in the early levels, is on active defense of attack. There is no kata or forms work at all in any of it at any level. Generally students are taught to begin a defensive position with a confident yell of "BACK OFF!" or similar, and are taught a lot of sort of canned maneuvers to counter some very specific and rather stereotypical moves of an attacker (hence the choreographed quality). As with most highly self-defense focused martial arts styles, the students are taught to avoid and escape with as little contact as possible.

    While this is not likely to produce the next MMA champion, I think the training probably does improve the student's chance of surviving an attack. Not by pure martial skill, but by instilling the confidence in the student to have presence of mind in that sort of situation, and to not appear as a passive victim or easy target. If the ninja mythology and Dungeons and Dragons flavor helps achieve that, then so be it.

    That's not to say its fighting techniques are complete bullshit, they do teach some reasonable and basic defensive techniques, and I think it probably does serve as a decent introduction to the discipline of learning a fighting style and physical fitness for a lot of its students. So it has a place, but it's not for everyone.

    OK that's my treatise on Quest centers. Again, a Quest owner, instructor, or long time student may have a completely different opinion.
    I have been reading your comments and I have to jump in.... Yes a loud exlamation is used in defense , it may help in some way... but the stduents are not taught specific moves against specific attacks... in fact if you just avoid the attack that is good enough, the first item is to remove the target... then the attacking limb is targeted, balance is also important and so it is principles and not specific attacks or defences that are taught...I have trained in Nisei-goju, Shuri-ryu, Jhoon Rhee and Bujinkan and To Shin do which is a modern adaptation of Buji, that uses more realistic attacks.
    If you pay attention to what is being taught, you will know that we train in a less than full speed, that is to be able to keep training as these techniques can seriously damage a person...this is no sports karate instruction here., hence the no "kata( actually they are all "katas" being taught, just not traditional ones) or stiff stances..it is self defense. At least one case I know of in a road rage incident a big strong guy took a swing at one student and he just stuck out his arm and let him run into it... the guy arm broke... this art uses body dynamics and subtle body alignment for maximum effect...it does not teach if a guy does this you must do that... again it teaches principles... take their balance, use thier body weight and momentum against them, use gravity against your opponent, remove the target...this dojo has a Navy SEAL(inactive) that trains there and many police officers, i would suggest that you partciipate in an actual class and see what it is about, it is not enough to watch, you need to feel the training, i think your opinion would change if you did this, this is some of the highest training you will find anywhere, and they actually train for the MMA types and they do work on ground game, strikes, kicks, it is Ninpo Tai Juitusu is the base style, whole body movement...come and participate sometime.

  8. #48
    <plasma>'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bignevermo View Post
    I have been reading your comments and I have to jump in.... Yes a loud exlamation is used in defense , it may help in some way... but the stduents are not taught specific moves against specific attacks... in fact if you just avoid the attack that is good enough, the first item is to remove the target... then the attacking limb is targeted, balance is also important and so it is principles and not specific attacks or defences that are taught...I have trained in Nisei-goju, Shuri-ryu, Jhoon Rhee and Bujinkan and To Shin do which is a modern adaptation of Buji, that uses more realistic attacks.
    If you pay attention to what is being taught, you will know that we train in a less than full speed, that is to be able to keep training as these techniques can seriously damage a person...this is no sports karate instruction here., hence the no "kata( actually they are all "katas" being taught, just not traditional ones) or stiff stances..it is self defense. At least one case I know of in a road rage incident a big strong guy took a swing at one student and he just stuck out his arm and let him run into it... the guy arm broke... this art uses body dynamics and subtle body alignment for maximum effect...it does not teach if a guy does this you must do that... again it teaches principles... take their balance, use thier body weight and momentum against them, use gravity against your opponent, remove the target...this dojo has a Navy SEAL(inactive) that trains there and many police officers, i would suggest that you partciipate in an actual class and see what it is about, it is not enough to watch, you need to feel the training, i think your opinion would change if you did this, this is some of the highest training you will find anywhere, and they actually train for the MMA types and they do work on ground game, strikes, kicks, it is Ninpo Tai Juitusu is the base style, whole body movement...come and participate sometime.
    Too Deadly to go full speed and "We train cops and Special Forces." I would laugh at the thread necro if you didn't seem to be stuck in the past.

    How often do you spar? Do you ever spar?

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by <plasma> View Post
    Too Deadly to go full speed and "We train cops and Special Forces." I would laugh at the thread necro if you didn't seem to be stuck in the past.

    How often do you spar? Do you ever spar?
    I didnt say too deadly , too injurious. My pedigree includes Shuri Ryu, Nisei Goju, Jhoon Rhee and another instructor in TKD, Bujinkan and now To Shin Do...
    To answer your question, what does "sparring" mean to you?
    We do sometimes put on pads and attack each other with no stylized attacks...but in levels below black belt that is not usually done...I have sparred many times in other styles, but if you go full speed in the attack, without pads, the chances of injury are great and almost certain...this isnt a type of MA where you dance around and see who can get in a punch...or a kick...this is serious self defense...if an attacker comes in to really do you harm, with the energy that requires and the intent, broken arms, crushed throats, knockouts will happen...I have lived it, I trained when there were no pads... and we trained at half speed to avoid these type of injuries, I still almost had my throat crushed because the defender wasnt skilled enough to restrain himslef enough...I have had to use this art on the street before, I am not a violent person and I just put him to sleep... he happened to land on his face out cold and so he got a bloody nose...there is more to that story but I am pretty certain you dont want to hear it...others have had to use this art as well...leading to broken arms...we teach principles, such as removing the target and attacking the limb of the attacker...we dont do a block/strike standard repsonse such as in some of the other styles i have studied...use what they give you and every circumstance is different so stylized responses are not as useful as being in a "void" state under self defense situations...you can always come down to the Quest center in Tampa and see for yourself... :)

  10. #50

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    respones to you post

    it seems to me to be a slightly more LARPy version of the Bujinkan more than anything. Anyone had experience with it? I know the basic history- an offshoot of the Bujinkan started by Hayes- since Hayes is often credited with helping to start the Ninjer phenomenon (and from the clips and crazy books of his I've seen I wouldn't put it past him) I wouldn't be surprised to see bad things from it.




    Dear Lord....what hast the ninjerisms of Hatsumi and his disciples wrought?[/QUOTE]

    I had to delete your links because they would not let me post links because i have not posted enough so...

    None of your links are working, so I dont know what you are referencing, however, I do know Mark Russo and his lineage...the "Bushido" line is a martial art system he devised himself...he took the Jhoon Rhee and Shorin Ryu and combined them. He is a legit practitioner and he trained under Glenn Premru for the Shorin Ryu and Jhoon Rhee system for TKD...then he got into the Bujinkan and Hayes..He is in BB Hall of Fame as well. he also traveled to Japan and studied under Soki Hatsumi and Tanaka sensei and others there. If you are watching any videos of him, he is very relaxed in his defenses and makes it look easy...you can always go train with him... see for yourself... he has had others come in and be all macho, they dont last long to be sure... osu!

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