Gaijin Ryu Dojo Makes the News

**Matt W.** · Posted On: 4/22/2008 5:10pm

Ulysses, YOU'RE the one not seeing this, brother. YES, "soke councils" are often connected to BS, rank selling scams. YES, I will concede that they are probably misusing the term "soke" even though I never discussed it when I got my BA in Asian studies because no one in academia cares about the inner workings of Koryu martial arts. And YES, it is true that sokeships (lol) are usually connected to people who found their own bullshit styles of martial arts. But UNLESS YOU CAN SHOW THAT MAV'S TEACHER AND THE WCAF ARE ENGAGING IN THOSE PRACTICES all you have is that the WCAF has the same name for their rank certification process as some other orgs that are bullshido.

Has Mav's teacher founded his own style and, at least somewhere, claimed the title Soke? Yes. Is his style BS? No. Does the WCAF have a process for ranking people, including granting the title of Soke? Yes. Is there any evidence they have granted the rank to bullshido MAists or styles? No. Are there some similarities to belt/rank mills and circle jerk societies? Yes. Is there any evidence the WCAF has been operating as one? No.

And until there is some evidence for the above, I see no bullshido and consider all the "questionable" things to have been satisfactorily answered.

**Rock Ape** · Posted On: 4/22/2008 5:21pm

Have I ANYWHERE in this thread questioned the skills of either Mav or his teacher ? NO, what I have done is question why his teacher is the President of an organisation which advertises the generally accepted practices, YOU described as BS.

**Matt W.** · Posted On: 4/22/2008 5:24pm

Simply using the term Soke is not bullshido, even if it does not exactly correlate to the terms original use for Koryu martial arts. Simply having a rank granting/certification process is not bullshido. So, where is the bullshido?

**MaverickZ** · Posted On: 4/22/2008 8:21pm

Dave, I want you to read what I'm going to say now very carefully. These are going to be my last sincere words to you because this is getting repetitive. I want you to really think about what I'm going to say because it will help you grow as a martial artist. And this will answer why I "don't answer" your questions.

What you fail to grasp here is that I simply don't care whether there is or is not a Soke Council. If this particular group of people wants to call itself a Soke Council, a Convocation of the Masters, the Council of Elrond, the Care Bear Club, or the motherfucking Lollipop Guild then I just don't care. What they want to call themselves is completely and utterly unimportant. I mean, good lord, you're arguing about titles with a guy who studies Gaijin Ryu Jiujitsu..... GAIJIN RYU JIUJITSU.

What IS important is whether this particular group of people knows their martial arts stuff. And I can say with complete and utter conviction that my instructor and the several members of the WCAF that I HAVE met know their stuff. Whether they are soke or not concerns me just as much as leaves falling on a lake in China.

Now, you can keep hammering on what is and what isn't a soke and what is the right use or what isn't, it just isn't going to matter. What matters is their skill, and that has been vetted by people much greater than you. The people you are currently backhandedly accusing of "circle jerking" have accomplished more in and contributed more to martial arts than you could dream. And the sooner you let go of your notions of titles, the sooner you will see what is really the tao of martial arts.

**Rock Ape** · Posted On: 4/23/2008 6:09pm

Mav,

I just wanted to say, in all sincerity, you are a credit to your dojo and instructor.

Whilst I personally disagree on the issue of Soke and Soke Councils; because I see absolutely no point, purpose or credibility in western budoka using the term and, given the wide abuse and bullshit [yes I like that word ;p] associated with almost all of them. However, my opinions are more likely drawn from my long term study of koryu bujutsu than anything else so, please accept my apologies for the intrusion. And... sorry this post took so long but I've been on duty.

--Dave

**socratic** · Posted On: 4/23/2008 8:38pm

So, who gave your instructor his BJJ belt, Mav? Didn't someone point out that the site accredits him with a belt from a guy whose name is Purple Belt, who trained under Carlos? Did everyone just miss that part?

I don't mean to be insulting here, I'm genuinely curious. Who gave your instructor his BJJ rank?

**MaverickZ** · Posted On: 4/23/2008 8:42pm

Originally Posted by socratic

So, who gave your instructor his BJJ belt, Mav? Didn't someone point out that the site accredits him with a belt from a guy whose name is Purple Belt, who trained under Carlos? Did everyone just miss that part?

I don't mean to be insulting here, I'm genuinely curious. Who gave your instructor his BJJ rank?

Carlson Gracie Jr.

***JohnnyCache*** · Posted On: 4/23/2008 9:01pm

Originally Posted by Ulysses Everett McGill

It matters not who, only that they exist to carry out that function, and they advertise as much.

If there's no actual incidence of them doing so, do they exist to carry out that function?

***DerAuslander*** · Posted On: 4/23/2008 9:05pm

Hey.

Leave the Zen **** to me, Johnny.

**socratic** · Posted On: 4/24/2008 3:14am

Originally Posted by MaverickZ

Carlson Gracie Jr.

What rank? Black? I suppose that's a stupid question, but if he's a Carlos black belt, wouldn't he be on some database somewhere, considering he'd be only one degree from a Gracie?