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  1. #111
    Rock Ape's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Why is it that people are focusing on Mav's teacher ?

    My observations are SPECIFICALLY to do with his connections to an organisation which has questionable ethics. It has nothing to do with his grades/experience - both of which have never been under scrutiny (despite a bit of jocularity about his Sokeship)

    So Satori, if you wish to send your email, fine with me but do not include any response it yields here, unless it specifically discusses the WCAF, Soke councils etc etc.

    Thanks

  2. #112
    SuperGuido's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulysses Everett McGill
    So Satori, if you wish to send your email, fine with me but do not include any response it yields here, unless it specifically discusses the WCAF, Soke councils etc etc.

    Thanks
    That was my original intention.

    Mr. Epperson has students who compete successfully in MMA. We have videos to prove it. I'm not terribly interested in his qualifications, as he's obviously teaching material that can be proven in competition.

    The sole purpose of my email would be to inquire about his association ties, the purpose for them, and why he chooses to align himself with said associations.

  3. #113
    Rock Ape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satori
    That was my original intention.

    ..//..

    The sole purpose of my email would be to inquire about his association ties, the purpose for them, and why he chooses to align himself with said associations.
    Ok well, that's not what you indicated in your previous post
    Quote Originally Posted by Satori
    I plan on sending Mr. Epperson a polite, respectful email inquiring about his training and where he attained his ranks.

  4. #114
    SuperGuido's Avatar
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    You're right. After my previous post, Maverick supplied enough information via PM to allay any questions I may have regarding rank/training.

    I forgot to mention that.

    Therefore, my email today will focus solely on the questionable associations Mr. Epperson has ties to.

  5. #115
    Community Corrections Officer supporting member
    Matt W.'s Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ulysses, are you claiming that having a "Soke Council" and/or using the term Soke under any circumstances is bullshido in and of itself, no matter how they may grant rank if they do at all?

  6. #116
    Rock Ape's Avatar
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    To fully comprehend the answer that question there has to be a good understanding of Japanese cultural and social hierarchy extending back a number of centuries. I do not wish to appear as if I'm insulting you're intelligence but yes, westerners using the term Soke are entirely misrepresenting it's original connotation in favour of attempting to claim status and associating "Soke" with rank (most often 10th dan) and the "founding" of a martial art. If you know anything about the established vertical hierarchy which exists in Japan then you'll appreciate, you can't claim status, you either hold it or you do not, and in a society which to this day still retains the hierarchal relationships established centuries ago, it is easy to spot those who bullshit in this particular area.

    "Soke" has nothing to do with rank or that of "founding" any martial system, despite what is commonly believed to be the case. This is a classic example of long term misuse of the term which eventually becomes and accepted norm.

    If you research classical (Koryu) bujutsu you will find very few legitimate "Soke" existed. It is interesting to point out that often you will hear or read about a "soke" but the reality is that title has been applied by students to their 'idol' rather than the title being absolutely legitimate.

    The term Soke was made particularly 'popular' in the US through the last ten years with the creation of such organisations such as the World Sokeship Council etc etc, these organisations exist to circle-jerk and offer pseudo-legitimacy to otherwise made-up bullshit, thus; when you read about Soke Councils - in the west - consisting of people responsible for "founding" their own (by and large) bullshit arts, you can appreciate "Soke" really means very little and is generally considered by those involved in legitimate classical koryu, as rubbish... or in other words. Bullshit.

    As a classic example, Google "Soke 10th dan"

    Here is an excellent article from Koryu.com - Its lengthy but articulates the issues of the term Soke especially when westerner's attempt to use it.

    http://www.koryu.com/library/wbodiford1.html
    Last edited by Rock Ape; 4/22/2008 3:20pm at .

  7. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulysses Everett McGill
    these organisations exist to circle-jerk and offer pseudo-legitimacy to otherwise made-up bullshit, thus; when you read about Soke Councils - in the west - consisting of people responsible for "founding" their own (by and large) bullshit arts, you can appreciate "Soke" really means very little and is generally considered by those involved in legitimate classical koryu, as rubbish... or in other words. Bullshit.
    You like to use that word a lot, "bullshit". Which of the arts here would you like to call bullshit?

  8. #118
    Rock Ape's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Are we going the route of insults now.. are we.. Mav ?

  9. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulysses Everett McGill
    Are we going the route of insults now.. are we.. Mav ?
    You're joking right? The person who started this insult fest is YOU. In fucking post #3 of this thread. Not only that, but.. um... what are you talking about? There wasn't even an insult IN that last post of mine.

    The only person truly insulting you is you. Through you little insinuations and "just asking questions." Now man up and say what you want to say or go away.
    Last edited by MaverickZ; 4/22/2008 4:23pm at .

  10. #120
    Rock Ape's Avatar
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Do you deny that Soke Councils consist of circle-jerkers and, the majority *if not all* of the "Soke" within them are "founders" of their own arts, and, the conscientious when discussed in these very forums support those statements ?

    Have you Googled Soke 10th dan yet, have you seen the types of people and their farcical lineages associated with Soke Councils ?

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