Position before Submission: What if noob can't get to position?

**Kentucky Fried Chokin** · Posted On: 9/08/2008 5:50pm

I do that drill and it has helped greatly.

**tharuz** · Posted On: 9/09/2008 3:28pm

Originally Posted by cyrijl

This past open mat I was thinking about all the things I say over and over again to new people just starting out. I thought I'd jot it down here. Most people understand position before submission but don't understand how to get to position. There are some basic tenets.

While this is far from sticky level writing…it would be nice to have something like this for noobs to refer to. I find most of the problems new people run into come from these concepts rather than the specific movements of a certain technique.

1 - Breathe.
If you can't roll for more than 2 minutes because you are spazzing out and afraid, you will never learn anything. If I can see the veins on your forhead throbbing, you are probably working too hard. This means I have time to watch your veins and am not worried. Try breathing, resetting position. If you get subbed…well that’s ok. Learn from it, reset and start again. The more you see the more you can get used to defending.

2 - Keep your arms in.
This is a little difficult for beginners to get. The natural inclination is to push as hard as possible to get someone off of you. The time in which arms are fully extended should be minimal. When arms are extended they should be protected by legs or you should be in such a position that your opponnt cannot extend your arms fully. This is a general guideline of couse, just like everything. But even with something like getting underhooks, you want your elbows at least trying to come by your sides. Having your arms in as an instinct will prevent quite a few arm bars and triangles.

These 2 are the basics. Once they get these I move on the the next two.

3 - Go back to the hips
In order to apply a submission to a joint, the joint above it needs to be immobilized.

Wrist-->elbow-->shoulder-->hips
Neck-->hips
Ankle-->knee-->hips

Often new people will attempt kimuras or americanas from inside the guard. I usually show them how lack of hip control makes it near impossible to finish the submission. This same idea goes for position, but almost in reverse. If you think about passing the guard, you need to controll the legs and move to the hips, or control the upper body and move to the hips. Once the hips are managed you can move back out to the limbs.

4 - If you are holding me...
Think about why you are holding on to someone. Do not just hold on for dear life. There are a few reasons why this is important.
a. You will get tired. Trying to hold on with your dear life will make your arms and heart tire quickly. This leads back to point one.
b. If you are holding on tight to me, you are transmitting a lot of information about your intentions. Experienced players can hold a lapel or sleeve with a firm grip but loosely enough to be deceptive. Grabbing on tightly allows me to know when/where you are moving to
c. If you are holding on for dear life, that is one less weapon which is free to attack. Again, there is a difference between holding on in order to go for a submission and holding on just because you fear what will happen when you let go. You will see guys hold the headlick for eternity even as things start to go drastically against them.
d. It is hard to learn if you don’t move. Don’t worry if they guy gets side control on you. If the only way you are preventing the mount is by strong arming the guy off of you, you are not working technique you are weightlifting.

The final two things I tell people.

5 – Don’t think about pulling and pushing the whole way.
Trying to move someone who just doesn’t want to move is just going to make you tired. If you need to close distance, think about moving yourself at least half of the distance. You see a lot of scissor sweeps in which the one on bottom tries to pull the guy on top of him from a foot away. Pull yourself under the top guy as you pull him closer. This will enable you to use your hips more than your arms and legs.
(added) I was trying to think of a good example to demonstrate this. Last night we were working from guard defenses and worked on the arm drag. Despite what the name implies, you don't just pull or drag your opponent on to you and over. You pull yourself into them as well to make yourself tight. Tryng to pull your opponent onto you during an arm drag is only going to make them lock down.

6 - People are like barrels not blocks.
It is easier to move in place than to try to create space by flipping. Shrimping practice is important because it helps develop moving in the same space. Being able to move yourself to create space rather than moving your opponent will help you gain the position you are striving for. Even though you might be mounted it is still far easier to roll yourself in place than it is to push your opponent off of you.

I would like to add that whenever you and your opponent's weight are going from the clinch to the ground, it is not a good idea to post up on your wrist or elbow.

just fall on your back, and that your defnses are low when you arms are far away from your body.

**tharuz** · Posted On: 9/09/2008 3:31pm

Originally Posted by Gabetuno

A good drill to learn to stay heavy is to take a large fitness orb, the kinds people do situps and pilates with, deflate it a little, and roll around on it.

It sounds a bit silly, but it really gets the feeling across of moving from side control to chest on chest to sitting out all the while keeping the ball under you. I've even seen guys do this with soccer ball sized medicine balls, and even once with a tennis ball. It's a great way to practice staying on top and has helped me tremendously.

Doesn't Frank Shamrock do that sort of stuff?

**Gabetuno** · Posted On: 9/09/2008 4:09pm

I learned it from one of the BB at my school. He does it so well it looks like he is swimming or something. He also makes everyone he rolls with look like a 12 year old he's so good. Anyway, one step at a time eh?

**Purpleskunk** · Posted On: 9/10/2008 12:48am

I tried doing it after seeing shamrock doing it in the prefight videos against cung le, and it didnt go so well.. Do you have specific techniques on what to do on them? video perhaps?

**vinhthekid** · Posted On: 9/10/2008 6:57am

http://mmabjj.wordpress.com/2008/05/...-andre-galvao/

that's my first favorite video, but if you search for it, hywel teague from SBG Britain has a pretty damn good one as well.

**Gabetuno** · Posted On: 9/10/2008 8:07am

**Octofish** · Posted On: 9/10/2008 8:32am

You mean like in this video: http://de.YouTube - big ball training for grappling and mma

This is my coach, showing some big ball training for grappling. We often do this stuff before class, as part of the warm-up. I think it is pretty good to practice top-control and movement.

**Purpleskunk** · Posted On: 9/10/2008 8:20pm

nice finally some instructions on this, although i cant see a noob (myself) doing this, but thats why im a noob anyways. thanks for the videos, definetely gonna go work on these drills though.

**Bustardo** · Posted On: 9/17/2008 9:21am

Very cool drill there with the exercise ball. I'll have to try that. I can stay extremely heavy from the top, till I move/attack. When i do that I'm always letting people escape. Cause of my massive size advantage I can sometimes pass some of the much better players guards when they make a mistake, but I'm not good enough to maintain my side control or mount when I get them.

"OH HAY I WILL GET YOU ! Oh we're back in your guard." That seems to be always be the story with my side control subs vs better people.

Here's my noob question of the day, and I should probably ask my teacher this tonight... I know that I'm much heavier if I don't plant my knees on the ground when I'm in side control. however when I don't plant my knees on the ground I know I'm giving them too much space to scoot their hip allowing them to recover guard. I've (of late) been compensating for this by usually going to N-S and trying for a choke or Kimura. However it's a shortcoming of my game that I know I need to work on.