Position before Submission: What if noob can't get to position?

**migo** · Posted On: 9/07/2008 9:49pm

Maybe I'm not interpreting your :p right, but I find it's wrestlers who don't make the mistake and it's very common among BJJers.

**Gabetuno** · Posted On: 9/08/2008 6:12am

That's my point. Staying "heavy" is a necessity in wrestling, and BJJ guys don't always take it on so well. If you aren't staying heavy, in my opinion, that's bad wrestling, but not necessarily bad BJJ.

**twKoxinga** · Posted On: 9/08/2008 6:33am

But shouldn't a well rounded bjj player know how to stay heavy?
He doesn't always have to do it, but I'm sure that its a skill that gets used enough to make learning how to do it important.

**cyrijl** · Posted On: 9/08/2008 7:43am

I don't know...almost 7 years on and I still have alot of trouble staying heavy.

**Gabetuno** · Posted On: 9/08/2008 9:52am

I know plenty of BJJ guys who can kick my ass without staying heavy. Though I know quite a few who can kick my ass while making me feel like a boat anchor is on me at all times.

***jnp*** · Posted On: 9/08/2008 9:58am

Originally Posted by twKoxinga

But shouldn't a well rounded bjj player know how to stay heavy?
He doesn't always have to do it, but I'm sure that its a skill that gets used enough to make learning how to do it important.

Almost any one year+ white belt can stay heavy in a static position, but it takes a huge attention to detail to stay heavy during transitions and not lose any ground while doing so.

I know many guys who have a heavy game on top, until they move . . .

**cyrijl** · Posted On: 9/08/2008 10:13am

Originally Posted by jnp

Almost any one year+ white belt can stay heavy in a static position, but it takes a huge attention to detail to stay heavy during transitions and not lose any ground while doing so.

I know many guys who have a heavy game on top, until they move . . .

This is definitely a problem with alot of people I roll with. I can't escape if they just lie there..but the very second they try to attack...BOOM, i'm out.

***jnp*** · Posted On: 9/08/2008 10:33am

Originally Posted by cyrijl

This is definitely a problem with alot of people I roll with. I can't escape if they just lie there..but the very second they try to attack...BOOM, i'm out.

That illustrates my point nicely. While it's wholly impractical to try to explain the intricacies of staying heavy during transitions in the printed medium, there is one bit of practical advice that is easy to explain. Move slowly and deliberately when you're on top. Concentrate on generating maximum pressure without creating any additional space.

Too many times, top guy sees the sub at the end of the rainbow and ignores good positioning in his impatience to get to the finish. This is why it's so important to slow down and pay attention to ALL the details when you're in a top position. You can't do this if you're in a mad scramble.

I still do this occasionally myself, despite knowing better. There's a brown belt who's been kicking my ass since I was a white and he was a blue. I've finally become good enough to gain side or mount on him lately, but once I'm there, I'm usually so surprised that I don't pay enough attention to my position and he escapes shortly thereafter.

**vinhthekid** · Posted On: 9/08/2008 11:38am

much love for the sticky-worthy post.

makes me proud to be from SBG.

**Gabetuno** · Posted On: 9/08/2008 4:31pm

A good drill to learn to stay heavy is to take a large fitness orb, the kinds people do situps and pilates with, deflate it a little, and roll around on it.

It sounds a bit silly, but it really gets the feeling across of moving from side control to chest on chest to sitting out all the while keeping the ball under you. I've even seen guys do this with soccer ball sized medicine balls, and even once with a tennis ball. It's a great way to practice staying on top and has helped me tremendously.