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  1. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/17/2008 9:37am

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     Style: white boy jiujitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Earl Weiss
    My kicking instruction is similar. The hand on the wall is the initial stage. Where I differ is that slow motion is the second step. It ios preceded by breaking the kick into it's component parts by number. An example for front snap kick is:
    1. Chamber, 2. Extension 3. Retraction, 4. Foot returns to floor starting position. (Instruction is "Up on 1, out on 2, back on 3, down on 4" until they associate the number with the position.) As I call out each number the student moves the leg to the position and I can correct the positions seperately including any pivot.

    I can also vary the count SUch as 1, 2, 3, 2, 3, 2, 3, 4. This gets them used to the idea of multiple kicks without putting the kick down.

    Next is slow motion telling them not to leave out any parts, telling them and showing them I don't want to see 1,2,4. (No retraction)

    If slow motion goes well we move to half speed, and then full blast. Each leg is trained at each stage before moving on to the next stage. So you may have 10 reps by count each leg, 10 reps half speed each leg. etc. After the method is fairly well ingrained we move to Targets, heavy bags and variatios such as skipping and jumping.
    Breaking down the kicks into different steps is a good idea. A LOT, if not all, schools of tae kwon do do this. I advocate it too at the beginner level.

    BUT, it is VASTLY important that the kicks are also trained as one flowing motion during the same training period. Too many schools get stuck on the step method and students come to believe that kicks are comprised of several steps, even at high levels. And that is what leads to terrible kicking technique and the crappy kicking techniques I see these days coming from tae kwon do students.

    I've seen people try to spar while performing their kicks in a step-wise manner, and it just looks horrible and simply doesn't work.
  2. M.C. is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/17/2008 9:55am

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     Style: KeyboardHero/CameraJutsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    We work on that issue by starting off with maybe 3, in rare cases 4 steps and then reduce the steps until it is "one single" motion.
    But especially with kicks like the paldung chagi or pande or Jopchagi it is important that you emphasize the single phases and shifts of your standing foot, your hip, the kicking foot. And it easier for people to get a proper technique that way, from my experience.
  3. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/17/2008 9:59am

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     Style: white boy jiujitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Think of it this way, you don't learn to jab or cross by going through separate steps. You see the motion, you do the motion, you learn the motion. Granted kicks are more difficult and thus require extra steps in there, but that is the ideal we should be going for. One motion, one kick.

    This is one reason why I believe that my tae kwon do roundhouse kicking can be superior to the way a lot of muay thai schools teach round house kicks. Who teach people to take a step to open the hips before throwing the kick. I practice my kicks to pull them off with speed and power from the neutral fighting stance, without setups.
  4. M.C. is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/17/2008 10:03am

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     Style: KeyboardHero/CameraJutsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sure after 5 minutes the kick should be a single motion but I think I don't have to tell you this is not the case for most people. Or when it is the motion is just plain wrong.

    The issue is, like I said in the teachers thread, how fast people addapt and if they can learn from just looking at a technique and more important if they have a good feeling for their body in order to get feedback if they do it right or wrong.

    Edit: @ your roundhouse, I think the reason is it is just "different" most people doing the MT roundhouse just use their leg as a lever, like a club.
    The TKD roundhouse uses hip rotation and a snap of your lower leg and therefore is way more powerful
    Last edited by M.C.; 6/17/2008 10:05am at .
  5. Earl Weiss is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/17/2008 10:14am


     Style: TKD & JJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Since the count method is a very small percentage of the program, it rarely presents a problem of students always doing the kick by count. For example one hand on the wall for 10, reps are by count, 10 half speed, 10 full speed, then they are moved of the wall for variations, none of which are by count such as Rear leg advancing, skip, later jumping kicks, Paddle work, and Bag work. Combinations with other kicks and hand techniques.

    Kicking by count is revisited if I feel the technique has become sloppy.
  6. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/18/2008 8:04pm

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     Style: white boy jiujitsu

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    Earl, do you teach your students the role that hips play in kicks? If so, may I ask what role they play?
  7. Earl Weiss is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/19/2008 7:04am


     Style: TKD & JJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ
    Earl, do you teach your students the role that hips play in kicks? If so, may I ask what role they play?
    Simple question. Probably a lot easier to show than put on paper. As a general rule with some caveat as to how easy this explanantion may be to understand is that the hip on the side of the kicking leg moves in the direction of the kick, either coordinated with the kicking motion or slightly ahead of the kicking motion. (Depending on the kick) For a side kick the hip is moving in the direction of the kick for a reverse spinning hook kick the hip would slightly precede the leg.

    In order to move the hip properly students need to concentrate on their upper body / shoulder position. Sometimes they think about their hip and leg and don't achieve proper position because their upper body is not positioned properly. This is often seen as having their back facing their opponent in a side kick. Getting the shoulders to move to the proper position facilitates hip movement and direction.

    If the hip lags behind the motion of the foot, the net effect is the kicking leg needs to pull the hip forward or in the direction of the kick to reach maximum extension and this is counter productive. Having the hip coordiante with or preced the fooyt / leg uses the muscles of the hip and abdoment to failitate the leg / foot motion.
  8. Metalhead_Matt is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2008 11:22pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sweet drills dude, what style of TKD do you do?
  9. Sang is offline
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    Posted On:
    10/20/2008 8:42am


     Style: MMA, Yoga

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by f4n4n

    Edit: @ your roundhouse, I think the reason is it is just "different" most people doing the MT roundhouse just use their leg as a lever, like a club.
    The TKD roundhouse uses hip rotation and a snap of your lower leg and therefore is way more powerful
    Abit of a late response but i haven't been to a MT club where there wasn't a BIG emphasis on hip rotation. If there is no hip in the MT roundhouse it is not a proper Thai kick, judging MT by the students who can't do it properly yet is like judging TKD by the people kicking in steps.

    Thanks for the post Mav, it would have been helpful for me to read that a few months back when i was learning the tkd roundhouse. I'll definately use your guide once i figure out the steps to the kyokushin reverse-roundhouse.
  10. Sang is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/31/2009 1:05am


     Style: MMA, Yoga

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm sick of having to search for this thread every time I'm learning a new kick so... arise thread!. I've successfully used this method to learn kicks outside my gym's curriculum so i suggest some more of you read through it too.
    "Boxing is the art of hitting an opponent from the furthest distance away, exposing the least amount of your body while getting into position to punch with maximum leverage and not getting hit."
    Kenny Weldon
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