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  1. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/14/2008 2:15pm

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     Style: white boy jiujitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    TKD doesn't work.
  2. Matt W. is offline
    Matt W.'s Avatar

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    Posted On:
    4/14/2008 2:27pm

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     Style: Judo, TKD BB

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ah, I can see that Maverick has become fed up and quit. Awesome. I am still curious if I had your training wrong, though.

    Hee Il Cho.

    How many fucking times do I have to say it?
    *shake head* Look, what do you want me to say? I've never trained with Cho, but from everything I've seen he's one of the guys doing it right. I'm sure there's lots of guys like him out there. Not sure if I'd consider his org one of the "major orgs", but that's nitpicking. At any rate, so what? How does that change or refute anything I've said?
  3. SgtDutch is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/14/2008 2:38pm


     Style: Taekwondo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Drake LaMancha
    I also agree with most TKD schools bad habits arise,in tourneys no hits are allowed to the back,so you see alot of spin kicks.
    Not true, according to the WTF ruleset the back, and the back of the head are legal scoring areas. Striking the spine, and the 2"(approx.) section leading up the back of the skull is illegal. It's kind of a grey area, because it is impossable to strike only the spine with your foot. I have a feeling that the rule was put in place for liability reasons, and to make it look safer on paper.

    I think alot of the garbage in TKD could be cleaned up with well trained referees. The rules are actually alot less restrictive then I thought. If the officials would grow a backbone and actually realize that this is a full contact sport (especially at the lower level tournaments), things could be alot better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drake LaMancha
    in most mma fights if you spin for a kick you are hit in the back of the friggin head.
    Maybe, but the tactics of the turning kicks are to either close distance or as counter kicks. So really not much chance of getting kicked in the back. The main issue I see in using turning kicks in MMA is creating an oppertunity for a takedown.
  4. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    4/14/2008 2:55pm

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     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Matt,

    GM Cho easily has just as many dojang worldwide as there are Ashihara, Enshin, Seido, or Daido Juku dojos worldwide.

    If your definition is what the WTF, ITF, & ATA do, then you have just said GM Cho does not teach Taegwondo.

    Please come up with a logically consistent argument.
  5. Matt W. is offline
    Matt W.'s Avatar

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    Posted On:
    4/14/2008 3:08pm

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     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Look, I'm not going to get trapped into talking about a guy that I have never seen in action nor trained with, nor seen any of his students in action. Nor am I going to be baited into an irrelevant side discourse because you appeal to/insult my logic.

    You are arguing against what is plain to my eyes. Namely, that the major guys in pro MMA that have a background in TKD look and fight just as I have previously described. In other words, like typical MMA fighters that have a few gimmick or unorthodox (in the world of MMA) kicks. That leads me to believe that TKD is not very useful in MMA without some significant modification.

    Note, that does not mean TKD = fail, or that I believe it is worthless or anything of the sort. Any attempt to paint me as such is a Strawman. But neither will I agree that it is just as valid and useful in MMA as a background in MT when that is clearly not the case. Down that road lies claims of "It's only the individual that matters!" and "All styles are equal." They're not.
  6. Matt W. is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/14/2008 3:12pm

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     Style: Judo, TKD BB

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    FYI, I was wrong about Mav and stand corrected. He does train TKD and uses it in MMA.
  7. Shu2jack is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2008 11:45am


     Style: AMAI TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hm. Okay. First, GrandUltimate, you are mistaken about what "MMA" means. This is an excellent definition already given by someone else in this thread, "Now it means the use of multiple martial arts, trained in combination, to encompass all the ranges of unarmed combat." Go with that. It won't steer you wrong.

    As for your main question, is TKD useful in MMA, I would say not really. It must be modified to the point that it no longer resembles TKD as taught by any major TKD org to be useful in MMA. Basically, you have to train it like a kickboxer, using power roundhouses and boxing hands. All that really leaves you with that is different from any other standard kickboxing is a few uncommon/gimmick kicks that can still be useful.
    Matt, we both study ATA (J. Smail here). We might not be on the same page, but what exactly is modified from the TKD training?

    The techniques are more or less the same. I've learned the boxing punches in the ATA. I've learned the power round kick in the ATA. Heck, we sometimes got our butts chewed out for not hitting hard enough. From my brief time in a MMA school, the kicking mechanics were no different from what I was taught.

    I admit the sparring rules suck, but I haven't found too much trouble switching from ATA sparring to a kick boxing ruleset. I train with a guy who is pretty good at adding "TKD-ish" kicks with his kick boxing. Super fast, throws a jab in your face as he moves, then nails you in the ribs with a jump reverse side kick. And really, I think that is what TKD should look like.

    For MMA, a TKDer would need to learn to incorporate a ground and clinch game into their striking game.
  8. Mor Sao is offline
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    Nothing for Show, All for use

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2008 1:50pm

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     Style: Jook Lum South Mantis,

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Funny that I live in Massachusetts and have never heard of anyone by the name of Shifu David Brown.

    Grandultimate let me know more and I will pay him a visit and see if this person exits.

    Im always up to meeting with other MA Chinese martial art people.

    Oh by the way,

    Who did he study with? As I know most of the major real tai chi teachers in the state.
    Last edited by Mor Sao; 4/15/2008 1:52pm at .







  9. Matt W. is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/15/2008 1:56pm

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     Style: Judo, TKD BB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Matt, we both study ATA (J. Smail here). We might not be on the same page, but what exactly is modified from the TKD training?
    FYI, I have never trained at an ATA place. My rank comes from an independent guy in the Chang Hon/ITF lineage. As for what's modified... I'm sorry but I was under the impression ATA schools don't even spar with much contact! Check out the ATA FAQ thread to see why.
  10. Shu2jack is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/15/2008 2:04pm


     Style: AMAI TKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Opps! Sorry. I know a guy in the ATA whose name is Matt W. & your picture looks vaguely like him. I'm sorry!

    I'm the one who wrote the ATA FAQ btw. ;)

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