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  1. happyloaf is offline

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    Apr 2008
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    7

    Posted On:
    4/10/2008 3:01pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    I can't tell if I'm at a McDojo.....

    Hello,

    I am not "new" to martial arts and have been training Cuong Nhu for 3 years. I know from learking that some people aren't that hot on Cuung Nhu but outside of the sparring being no contact my instructors are GREAT and very knowledgeable (also they have great technique which is rare).

    But recently, I have started to train at an ATA school for Krav Maga. I have to say that my instructor seems to be very profiencent with a good grasp on the Krav style. The techniques we are shown and training methods match what I would expect from Krav. We do not implement the belt system as we have people of various skill levels training in one class. I am still afraid it is a McDojo because:

    1. We have contracts. I got them talked down to 5 months 100 bucks a month (200 to start....UGH) but this includes unlimted Krav classes (up to 6 a week 1 hour each) and TKD (which I do not take as I am not that flexible and will hurt myself).

    I do not like the idea of contracts. If the product is good it should sell itself. If the school needs a long term committment to pay the bills then that is fine but it should be disclosed.

    They did do the whole hard sell one night only crap which I feel they should be punched in the nuts for. This is the most demeaning and rude sales tactic of all time. I am going to work out at the dojo not buy a car and I should not feel pressured if I want to think things over or hand the contract to a lawyer (some of my fraternity brothers graduated law school and where more then happy to read the contract for me).

    2. It is an ATA school affiliated with karate america which I have heard bad things about.....

    3. We are allowed to wear what we want to wear to the krav class we are not required to by krav clothing to work out (great since I am on a poor grad student budget of <19k a year.)

    4. Our head instructor seems to be very knowledgeable and a decent teacher. That being said some people who have been taking the krav classes for a few months still have very very poor basics (mine as far as punching moveing kicking etc go are decent with the Cuong Nhu background).

    I am just wondering what you all thing from what I have said. Thanks for reading my long first post.
  2. EternalRage is offline
    EternalRage's Avatar

    WARNING: BJJ may cause airway obstruction.

    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Long Island
    Posts
    3,360

    Posted On:
    4/10/2008 5:03pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bajillion Joo Jizzu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Contracts aren't necessarily a bad thing. If it's like a "5 yr black belt instructorship platinum package" then yeah that's red flags right there. But some instructors out there just hate dealing with finances, and hire a billing company with contracts to take care of all that crap.

    The ATA stuff tho... big red flag.
  3. Rivington is offline
    Rivington's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    East Bay, CA
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    4,733

    Posted On:
    4/10/2008 5:52pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A negotiable contract and $100 for unlimited classes doesn't sound too awful. Got anything else?
  4. Slapsymaxi is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    24

    Posted On:
    4/10/2008 6:12pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Contract seems ok, but...

    How legit is the Krav Maga there? A lot of TKD instructors just go to a 3 day seminar. That seems to be a really hot thing to do right now.

    Then you just have some guy who's spent 10 years doing double jump spinning kicks screaming about the necessity to do groin shots, cause,"THAT'S REAL!".


    Eh.


    Max
  5. andrewa is offline

    Registered Member

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    Mar 2006
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    Canada
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    549

    Posted On:
    4/10/2008 6:31pm


     Style: Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by happyloaf
    We have contracts. I got them talked down to 5 months 100 bucks a month (200 to start....UGH) but this includes unlimted Krav classes (up to 6 a week 1 hour each) and TKD (which I do not take as I am not that flexible and will hurt myself).

    I do not like the idea of contracts. If the product is good it should sell itself. If the school needs a long term committment to pay the bills then that is fine but it should be disclosed.
    Hi Happyloaf. I guess in your job you don't have a contract with employer right? After who would need such a thing? Since you live your life month to month you don't need any sort of written commitment, legal or otherwise.

    Furthermore I assume, that if ever rent your house you wouldn't ask the tenant to sigh a contract right?
  6. Telum is offline

    Registered Member

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    Mar 2008
    Posts
    291

    Posted On:
    4/10/2008 7:24pm


     Style: Karate, Krav Maga, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Slapsymaxi
    Contract seems ok, but...

    How legit is the Krav Maga there? A lot of TKD instructors just go to a 3 day seminar. That seems to be a really hot thing to do right now.

    Then you just have some guy who's spent 10 years doing double jump spinning kicks screaming about the necessity to do groin shots, cause,"THAT'S REAL!".
    ATA Krav Maga? Are you kidding? At the very least, make sure the instructor is IKMF or (preferably) IKMA certified. KMAA is BS, as are nearly all the other organizations.
  7. Slapsymaxi is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    24

    Posted On:
    4/10/2008 7:27pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Telum
    ATA Krav Maga? Are you kidding? At the very least, make sure the instructor is IKMF or (preferably) IKMA certified. KMAA is BS, as are nearly all the other organizations.

    Good, we're on the same page then!

    Do I get to start a thread on how much of a joke most of KM is, or has that thread been done to death?

    Max
  8. Telum is offline

    Registered Member

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    Mar 2008
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    291

    Posted On:
    4/10/2008 7:51pm


     Style: Karate, Krav Maga, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Slapsymaxi
    Good, we're on the same page then!

    Do I get to start a thread on how much of a joke most of KM is, or has that thread been done to death?

    Max
    There are two factors driving the bullshidoization of most KM.

    1) The KMAA hands out instructor certificates like pedophiles hand out candy
    2) KM is "teh realzors" so everyone wants to claim they teach it.

    There is a karate dojo on the south shore of long island that claims to teach krav maga. I saw one of their classes. It was karate, but with commands in hebrew instead of japanese.

    Anyway, I think the topic has been done to death. Feel free to PM me about it though.


    (Ugh, I hate the KMAA so much)
  9. cyril is offline
    cyril's Avatar

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    Tallahassee, FL
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    Posted On:
    4/10/2008 9:23pm


     Style: No-Gi BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by happyloaf
    Hello,

    I am not "new" to martial arts and have been training Cuong Nhu for 3 years. I know from learking that some people aren't that hot on Cuung Nhu but outside of the sparring being no contact my instructors are GREAT and very knowledgeable (also they have great technique which is rare).

    But recently, I have started to train at an ATA school for Krav Maga. I have to say that my instructor seems to be very profiencent with a good grasp on the Krav style. The techniques we are shown and training methods match what I would expect from Krav. We do not implement the belt system as we have people of various skill levels training in one class. I am still afraid it is a McDojo because:

    1. We have contracts. I got them talked down to 5 months 100 bucks a month (200 to start....UGH) but this includes unlimted Krav classes (up to 6 a week 1 hour each) and TKD (which I do not take as I am not that flexible and will hurt myself).

    I do not like the idea of contracts. If the product is good it should sell itself. If the school needs a long term committment to pay the bills then that is fine but it should be disclosed.

    They did do the whole hard sell one night only crap which I feel they should be punched in the nuts for. This is the most demeaning and rude sales tactic of all time. I am going to work out at the dojo not buy a car and I should not feel pressured if I want to think things over or hand the contract to a lawyer (some of my fraternity brothers graduated law school and where more then happy to read the contract for me).

    2. It is an ATA school affiliated with karate america which I have heard bad things about.....

    3. We are allowed to wear what we want to wear to the krav class we are not required to by krav clothing to work out (great since I am on a poor grad student budget of <19k a year.)

    4. Our head instructor seems to be very knowledgeable and a decent teacher. That being said some people who have been taking the krav classes for a few months still have very very poor basics (mine as far as punching moveing kicking etc go are decent with the Cuong Nhu background).

    I am just wondering what you all thing from what I have said. Thanks for reading my long first post.
    You seem to have picked two of the worst organizations to study martial arts under.

    Firstly, Cuong Nhu isn't all that hot, just repackaged Shotokan Karate (for the most part) with different forms.

    The ATA is known for being shitty martial arts, and is the epitome of McDojo. Now, there are quite a few guys that apparently run good TKD or whatever out of their schools, but these are far and few between, and we never get to see video of these schools.

    Knowing that your school is ATA, the people watching out for KMAA would be right on the money. It could just be repackaged TKD with more groin shots. Would you be able to tell the difference?

    Hurt yourself doing TKD? I doubt anyone's making you kick head level. Go stretch yourself and work outside the box. That's how you get more flexable. Eventually you get to be silly-putty, should you put the time in. TKD is really good at that.
  10. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/10/2008 9:29pm

    supporting member
     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Whether the OP's Krav sucks or not is outside the perview of the question of McDojoism. Fake Krav would be bullshido. Sometimes bullshido comes cheap. Sometimes McDojos teach very well.
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