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  1. jdinca is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2008 6:04pm


     Style: Chinese Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Depends on angle, target, distance, etc. Sometimes a roundhouse ends up striking with the shin instead of the ball of the foot because the opponent moves in when you throw it. It's all good as long as it's done right.
      #11
  2. maofas is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/09/2008 8:46am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kenkojuku Karate, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The ball of the foot is good because it presents a small striking surface that jutts out like the head of a hammer. It can often reach through an opponent's attempt to block/cover and whack them. It should theoretically have more power since the force is spread out along a smaller striking surface, but most people are probably going to do the kick more gingerly afraid for their toes which makes for a weaker kick overall.

    Using the instep is an easier technique to do and gives you a few inches of extra reach.

    I've known a couple of people with mutant toes that made great use of the ball-of-the-foot roundhouse, but my toes don't bend back far enough that I like using it barefoot (I have no problem with ball-of-the-foot front kick though). In most shoes that I wear I would definitely use it though.
    Last edited by maofas; 4/09/2008 8:54am at .
      #12
  3. The Question is offline
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    Octopussy!

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    Posted On:
    4/09/2008 8:59am

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     Style: Striking/Grappling/Poking

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by maofas
    The ball of the foot is good because it presents a small striking surface that jutts out like the head of a hammer. It can often reach through an opponent's attempt to block/cover and whack them. It should theoretically have more power since the force is spread out along a smaller striking surface, but most people are probably going to do the kick more gingerly afraid for their toes which makes for a weaker kick overall.
    Yeah, dude, you're full of ****. Juts out like the head of a hammer? What the **** are you talking about? It should theoretically have more power since the force is spread out over a small surface? Under which fucking theory? The tip of your index finger is a smaller surface than your fist, but that doesn't make striking with the tip of your index finger a good fucking idea.

    Might I ask what the **** you train in?
    Quote Originally Posted by Goju - joe
    being a dick with skill is only marginally better than being a dick without skill.
      #13
  4. Domite is offline
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    blotter art.

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    Posted On:
    4/09/2008 9:06am


     Style: San Shou

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Karate and judo?
      #14
  5. jj77 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/09/2008 9:13am


     Style: kickboxing

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Doing the front kick uses the ball of the foot and its excellent for that delivery. Since the legs are the body's stronger muscles, the force applied along with momentum should generate a good hit. The roundhouse depends on you pivoting on one leg and using your hip to generate the force required to make contact by using your shin. Too risky using the ball of your foot to do roundhouse unless your toes are flexed back and your are that accurate with your delivery. I'm not sure which would deliver more force in that scenario, the roundhouse using the shin or the one using the ball of the foot.
      #15
  6. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    4/09/2008 9:22am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you delivered maximal force to a stationary target using the ball of your foot you would have a very good chance of breaking several of the bones in your foot. Delivering maximal force with the shin has a much lower risk of breakage. So even if in theory striking with the ball of the foot presents a smaller striking surface and a higher lbs/sq/in of force it is not the optimal striking surface for damage over time. It is better to retain your ability to walk and kick after your initial strike than to lose it even if that would give you an extra 15% power to the blow.
    But, if you look at the way the shin impacts the target it usually presents a fairly small striking surface since it impacts with the shin towards the bottom where it is narrower. I would say that the striking surface you end up with when using the shin is only 5-10% larger than that of the ball of the foot. And you can swing with more force because the surface is sturdier. So for maximal force you should impact with the lower part of the shin.
    The only possible advantage over shin kicks that ball of foot kicks have is an extra few inches of reach.
      #16
  7. The Question is offline
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    Octopussy!

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    Posted On:
    4/09/2008 9:24am

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     Style: Striking/Grappling/Poking

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Domite
    Karate and judo?
    I read that. But is it Kyokushin? Or Shotokan or some other bullshit that you can't really use to hurt people. I'm guessing it's Isshin Ryu.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goju - joe
    being a dick with skill is only marginally better than being a dick without skill.
      #17
  8. G-Off is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/09/2008 9:25am


     Style: Ronin wannabe

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by maofas
    The ball of the foot is good because it presents a small striking surface that jutts out like the head of a hammer. It can often reach through an opponent's attempt to block/cover and whack them. It should theoretically have more power since the force is spread out along a smaller striking surface, but most people are probably going to do the kick more gingerly afraid for their toes which makes for a weaker kick overall.
    Yeah, I've heard this argument before. In my experience, it's total BS. That less surface area = more concentrated force thing sounds good, but it doesn't really work. I'm no physiologist, but I have some opinions why the shin kick ends up being a lot more powerful.

    1. The shin is a much harder object to strike with than the ball of the foot, therefore it causes more damage. 2. The shin actually comes to a bit of a point, if you feel your shin bone straight down the center of your leg there's sort of a ridge there. This means the part of your shin you're hitting with first actually has a pretty small surface area. 3. There's something about the toes-pulled-back roundhouse kick that when you pull your toes back like that causes you to kick slower. I'm not sure why, but it's gotta have something to do with the musculature. Every time I pull back my toes, I can't swing the kick out nearly as fast as if I try to kick with the instep or shin.
      #18
  9. The Question is offline
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    Octopussy!

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    Posted On:
    4/09/2008 9:28am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Striking/Grappling/Poking

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jj77
    Doing the front kick uses the ball of the foot and its excellent for that delivery. Since the legs are the body's stronger muscles, the force applied along with momentum should generate a good hit. The roundhouse depends on you pivoting on one leg and using your hip to generate the force required to make contact by using your shin. Too risky using the ball of your foot to do roundhouse unless your toes are flexed back and your are that accurate with your delivery. I'm not sure which would deliver more force in that scenario, the roundhouse using the shin or the one using the ball of the foot.
    You can talk all you want to about force and momentum and such, but when it comes down to it, if you're sparring and **** is being thrown every which way, there's scarecly enough time to be doing **** like that. If you keep throwing kicks like that against people who keep their hands up, you will catch something and injure your foot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goju - joe
    being a dick with skill is only marginally better than being a dick without skill.
      #19
  10. wildwills is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/09/2008 10:12am


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Telum
    I tried searching for this topic, but couldnt find any:

    What are the advantages/disadvantages of the shin over the ball of the foot? In shotokan, we are taught to kick with the ball of the foot, but I understand that Muay Thai and kyokyshin both use the shins.

    Ball of the foot has a slightly longer range, but those delicate toes are so ever close to your striking surface. Does that about sum it up?
    Do you mean "Mawashi geri"? If yes, then both the ball of the foot and shin are taught as variations. I always preferred the shin versus the ball of the foot, especially for head kicks. In the course of tai sabaki and yori ashi...if I got around and behind my opponent, I would use the ball of my foot to the kidney.

    As for power, you can't beat the shin.
      #20
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