Emyr "Shark" Bussade Knee bar on Lennox

**Roidie McDouchebag** · Posted On: 4/12/2008 4:10pm

That someone sure ain't you, so stfu.

Sorry, Anthony, you aren't included. I know you'd enjoy it too much. ;)

Seriously though, FLMike came off like a wanker saying that. Like leglocks are inescapable BUT ONLY IF YOU'RE A BJJ BLACK BELT!!1!

Right, like when a guy throws like 10 jabs, one after another, and one hits.

Throwing 10 jabs in a row is kind of absurd, and IMO, going for any move that doesn't seem to be working over and over is kind of crazy, but I do like the way leglocks get the face away from the punching, so not really absurd in an overall sense.

**Pandinha** · Posted On: 4/12/2008 5:11pm

Mike is just proud of his Instructor.

**meataxe** · Posted On: 4/12/2008 5:39pm

I couldn't even bear to click on that! I have a hard time even watching leg lock *attempts*. That comes from 5 months on crutches.

**sambosteve** · Posted On: 4/12/2008 6:03pm

Look, IMO, if you see a guy giving you an opening for a leg lock, keep trying for the sub...why not. But, some of the earlier attempts looked far reaching...and after the thrid or fourth (I forget exactly) failed attempt, put the leglock in your back pocket for a bit. But hey, he got it and Lenox was dumb enough to fall for it when he knew that is all Bussade was going for. So, we should all stfu about absurd amounts...his absurd amount of attempts got him the W.

Posted by Pandinha
Right, like when a guy throws like 10 jabs, one after another, and one hits.
I don't see how going for a submission you know you can get is absurd.

Regarding the comparison between multiple jabs and multiple sub attempts, that is like apples and oranges...and to compare them is really naive.

Posted by Pandinha
I guess when you don't think like a grappler, going for submissions is absurd.

It has nothing to do with thinking like a grappler or not. In fact, If you are in an MMA fight, you should not be thinking like a grappler at all...or a striker. You should be thinking like an MMA fighter. Too many grappling tactics will get your ass kicked in MMA, same with striking tactics. MMA is it's own animal...neither grappler or striker.

When a BJJ blackbelt latches on to your leg, you should tap and fight another day rather than risk a serious or career ending knee injury.

LOL...no comment.

**Pandinha** · Posted On: 4/12/2008 10:38pm

Originally Posted by sambosteve

Look, IMO, if you see a guy giving you an opening for a leg lock, keep trying for the sub...why not. But, some of the earlier attempts looked far reaching...and after the thrid or fourth (I forget exactly) failed attempt, put the leglock in your back pocket for a bit. But hey, he got it and Lenox was dumb enough to fall for it when he knew that is all Bussade was going for. So, we should all stfu about absurd amounts...his absurd amount of attempts got him the W.

Agreed.

Regarding the comparison between multiple jabs and multiple sub attempts, that is like apples and oranges...and to compare them is really naive.

How is it naive? Are they not both techniques? Are they both not part of MMA? At the very core, they were both used in that fight as techniques in a fight.

It has nothing to do with thinking like a grappler or not. In fact, If you are in an MMA fight, you should not be thinking like a grappler at all...or a striker. You should be thinking like an MMA fighter. Too many grappling tactics will get your ass kicked in MMA, same with striking tactics. MMA is it's own animal...neither grappler or striker.

With the talk in this thread of going for a sub attempt that doesn't working absurd. So don't throw a hook or punch because it didn't work the first few times? Assinine.

LOL...no comment.

Again, Mike is proud of his instructor.

***Cassius*** · Posted On: 4/12/2008 11:24pm

I think this happens more often with submissions than a lot of people notice. People only noticed this time because leg locks are seen as novel or unusual in MMA. They're certainly less common than other submissions, and they seem to be taboo to a lot of folk, so I think a lot of fans notice when a fighter repeatedly goes for leg locks, as opposed to something else.

I don't know how many times I've seen fighters hunting for the same armbar or the same triangle choke from the same setup in MMA. Lately, I've been noticing it a lot with guillotine chokes. When watching a pro MMA event on TV, it seems like I can't watch a single card without seeing at least one fighter actively hunting for a guillotine choke to the point of ridiculousness. And more often than not, it seems that this annoyingly persistent fighter ends up getting that damn guillotine, too.

From what I understand, that kneebar is one of Shark's bread and butter moves. When I watched the fight a couple days after the fact, it appeared to me that Lennox was winning the fight, but not dominating it so badly that he could have won without a decision. When fighters are losing, they tend to fall back on what they know best. This happens to me with north south kimuras in grappling tournaments sometimes. When I start to get tired or frustrated, sometimes that is the only submission I see open, regardless of what else is there. Hence there is a lot of footage of me teabagging folks in grappling tournaments while I'm cranking on their shoulders.

Another example is the recent Lauzon/Florian fight. Pre-UFC, Joe's leglock game was very noticeable in his fights. During his time on TUF and subsequent fights, we didn't see too much of that. But during the Florian fight, he let it out. I'm not sure if he had planned that or not, since his leglock game is more developed than a lot of BJJ guys', but it fits a pattern, anyway.

Jorge Gurgel also comes to mind, but mostly in a bad way.

**Tom Kagan** · Posted On: 4/12/2008 11:24pm

Originally Posted by Pandinha

So by your logic, more than one kick or one punch is absurd. One throw is absurd, one shot is absurd, etc.

If a mystique is building where one kick/punch/throw/shot is all it should take, then when a mere mortal successfully defends against multiple kicks/punches/throws/shots, then yes, it is becoming absurd.

:smile:

**Pandinha** · Posted On: 4/12/2008 11:37pm

Originally Posted by Tom Kagan

If a mystique is building where one kick/punch/throw/shot is all it should take, then when a mere mortal successfully defends against multiple kicks/punches/throws/shots, then yes, it is becoming absurd.

:smile:

So you are saing there's some mystique about submissions? The bottom line is that any technique can win, whether punch, kick, or submission. Going for it 3 to 4 times is not absurd.

Especially if they get it to win.

**Pandinha** · Posted On: 4/12/2008 11:45pm

2 knee bar attempts and 1 successful kneebar is not absurd. And they were not in succession, twice in the 1st, once in the 2nd. ****, I don't even think foot stomps are dumb, Lennox did it 3 times, it sets up the next move.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbVo3SVwVN0

**Tom Kagan** · Posted On: 4/12/2008 11:48pm

Originally Posted by Pandinha

So you are saing there's some mystique about submissions? The bottom line is that any technique can win, whether punch, kick, or submission. Going for it 3 to 4 times is not absurd.

Especially if they get it to win.

Suggesting Lennox should have given up within the 1st minute of the first round on the first attempt - to "tap and fight another day" as FLMikeATT suggests - yes it is becoming absurd.

... approaching a bullshido-esque statement, even.

:smile: