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  1. Rock Ape is offline
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    Watch and Shoot !

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2008 8:56am

    staff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wounded Ronin
    Which would you recommend I load up if I heard a suspicious noise downstairs/outside and was concerned about defending my home? 00 shot or slugs?
    How much skill at arms do you do ?

    How confident are you in general ?

    Which would YOU rather use (that's actually the more important question when you have the choice)

    --Dave
  2. HonkyTonkMan is offline
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    Y SO SRIUS?

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2008 9:01am

    supporting member
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wounded Ronin
    Which would you recommend I load up if I heard a suspicious noise downstairs/outside and was concerned about defending my home? 00 shot or slugs?

    3" #00.

    These are magnum loaded shells. They will penetrate sheetrock and still do damage.
    These loads can kill a Grizzly Bear. I have seen it done.
    A slug can overpenetrate and lowers your hit percentage.

    Make sure that your gun can shoot 3" shells though.
  3. vigilus is offline
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    Infidel

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2008 10:20am


     Style: Yoshinkan Aikido, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Yrkoon9
    Yeah. But we mostly use them for breaching.
    We're not alowed using them on people, only doors and **** like vehicle engines. I think they consider it inhumane.

    3 inch 00buck is my favorite shotgun round.
    You are not free whose liberty is won by the rigour of other, more righteous souls. Your are merely protected. Your freedom is parasitic, you suck the honourable man dry and offer nothing in return. You who have enjoyed freedom, who have done nothing to earn it
  4. TM is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2008 11:37am


     Style: Ha Say Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I alternate 00 buckshot and rifled slugs. 3" magnums. Know your field of fire.
  5. SpringHeeledJack is offline
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    Diabolical Physiognomy

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2008 11:50am


     Style: Boxing; Sub. Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you're worried about penetrating walls, Mossberg has you covered:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiki
    The model 500 HS410, or "Home Security" model, is only available in .410, and is specifically designed for defensive use. It comes with a youth sized stock, a vertical foregrip with, in some versions, a built in laser sight, and a special muzzle brake and spreader choke on an 18.5 inch (47 cm) bead sight barrel. The .410, while by far the least powerful common shotgun chambering, still generates energy in excess of a .357 Magnum, and the spreader choke produces wider patterns, as well as less chance of wall penetration, in the short ranges to be expected in a defensive situation. This model is targeted at the novice user, who needs a simple, easy to use yet effective defensive weapon, and is packaged with an introductory video covering use and safety.
    yeah, 410s are small, but they'll still blow faces off at close range.

    Personally, I have a Mossberg 500 special purpose 8-shot pump loaded with #00 buck. If you're in the next room, too bad.


    Now lovely Lucifer, in hell so stark
    King, and lord of sin and pride
    With some mist his wits make dark.
    He send thee grace to be thy guide


    HE LOOKS LIKE A TINY BEAR MIXED WITH A CAT, AND THAT IS THE MEANEST ANIMAL MIXTURE EVER, BEAR FOR FUCKING STRENGTH, AND CAT FOR FUCKING MEAN!!! ************.

  6. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Shime Waza Test Dummy

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2008 12:16pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    At home defense ranges, you don't need anything more than #4 buckshot. At such short ranges, the pattern will be so tight, it won't matter, you won't need a choke. Go down to Big 5 and get a Mossberg M590, load it up with #4 buck. Over-penetration is barely an issue when you compare it to 00 Buck.
    In 2.75" 12 gauge shells, you've got eight .36-inch shot in "#000 buck", compared to 27 .24-inch balls in #4Buck. "Real-world Lethality" estimations for #4Buck shot is estimated from 80% to 90%, compared to the 88%-96% for your average #00 Buck.
    Of course, keep in mind that if you're hitting center mass, you're hitting with nine #00 Buck rounds at .33 cal, or you could be hitting with TWENTY SEVEN .24" BALLS.
    ALL THAT WITH LITTLE ISSUE OF OVER-PENETRATION WHEN COMPARED TO THE POPULAR "TACTICAL LOADS".
    The FBI has had great results over the years with 2.75" #4Buck (12gauge). The real world numbers don't lie.
    Oh, & get a Knoxx Compstock.


    Sometimes, less is more. Know your tools, but also know your environment.
    Last edited by Jim_Jude; 4/05/2008 12:50pm at .
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  7. meataxe is offline
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    International Man of Pancakes

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2008 1:03pm


     Style: Wu style tcc+bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There was a website on wound ballistics research with fairly comprehensive analysis on defensive shotgun rounds. I think this was it: http://www.firearmstactical.com/wbr.htm

    Their recommendation was for #1 buck. The rational was this:

    - more pellets = greater wound path = more damage
    - pellets have to be large enough to penetrate to vital areas

    So, the ideal load is the smallest pellet that will give adequate penetration. That gives you #1 buck. Apparently #2 doesn't give quite enough penetration, depending on target, clothing, etc.

    One other thing: If the round penetrates and passes through the target, then that round failed to transmit all it's energy to the target.

    As for shotgun vs. handgun, I recall on rec.guns a number of years back that many were of the opinion that a shotgun was a liability for anyone without training, due to lack of mobility in a confined space. And the old story of the racking pump gun scaring of the bad guy is BS. Then again, that was just rec.guns.
    Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
    - Voltaire
  8. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Shime Waza Test Dummy

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2008 1:28pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by meataxe
    ...Their recommendation was for #1 buck. The rational was this:

    - more pellets = greater wound path = more damage
    - pellets have to be large enough to penetrate to vital areas

    So, the ideal load is the smallest pellet that will give adequate penetration. That gives you #1 buck. Apparently #2 doesn't give quite enough penetration, depending on target, clothing, etc.
    Non-magnum #4 buck has 7" penetration in ballistic gelatin tests. More than enough.
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  9. meataxe is offline
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    International Man of Pancakes

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2008 1:36pm


     Style: Wu style tcc+bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude
    Non-magnum #4 buck has 7" penetration in ballistic gelatin tests. More than enough.
    I think the article was taking clothing and/or ribcage into account. There were some articles on the validity of ordinary ballistic gelatin tests too. I read it a while back (8yrs?), so the details are fuzzy, but I'm sure about the #1 buck. Not my first-hand research obviously, but it did strike me as a fairly rigorous analysis and the principles seem sound. I'd like to see if someone has done any more recent work.
    Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices.
    - Voltaire
  10. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Shime Waza Test Dummy

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    Posted On:
    4/05/2008 2:16pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, it's a tool box.
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
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