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  1. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/17/2003 10:16am

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     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Karate-A little paste on JKA/Shotokan/Shotokai

    http://www.brunelkarate.com/ for the full article - and check the instructors belt ranks - bet I could beat him up!

    In 1944 Funakoshi's students-the university clubs, the Old Boys clubs, and the private dojos all over Japan-officially organized themselves into the Nihon Karate Kyokai (Japan Karate
    Association, or JKA) and named Funakoshi their chief instructor emeritus Isao Obata, the chairman, was the wealthy president of his own trading company; the first JKA president, Kichinosuku Saigo, was a wealthy politician with major political influence These men had neither the time nor the inclination to administer the affairs of such a large and burgeoning organization, and the board of directors immediately hired a full-time, paid staff to run the organization. Masatomo Takagi, a business manager and a 5th dan in karate, was hired as general secretary. Masatoshi Nakayama was made chief instructor, to conduct day-to-day training at the headquarters; Kimio Ito was appointed director of administration; and Hidetaka Nishiyama was named chief of the instruction committee.


    In April 1955 the JKA opened its first commercial dojo in the preview room of the Kataoka Movie Center, and a strong campaign was launched for the recruitment of new students. Many old-line masters, chief among them Isao Obata of Keio, felt it was absolutely immoral for a man to accept money for teaching the art Even those who would not deny a man the right to be paid voiced opposition to placing karate on the market. The Hosei Old Boys were the first to leave the JKA, followed by Obata and the Keio group. Unburdened of the conserved ve Old Boys, the Takudai men pursued the development of karate in their own way; not surprisingly, in view of their training, they chose to internationalize the art.

    The Tadukai group thought the best way for an art like Shotokan karate to gain international acceptance was to give it a sporting aspect Turning karate into a sport with rules for competition was not new Since 1936 college clubs had been conducting kokangeiko (exchange of courtesies and practice), in which they tested their techniques against each other on a free-style basis. Without formal rules or supervision, however, these exchange and training sessions were, more often than not, bloodbaths. The Old Boys refused to acknowledge the existence of such shenanigans because these bouts were obviously opposed to the principles of karate as Funakoshi taught them.

    Nevertheless, the JKA directors and leaders in other styles brought free-sparring into the open, experimenting with it, debating it, and, finally, encouraging it. By 1950, virtually all the major styles of karate in Japan were practicing some form of free-style sparring. The JKA contest rules, comprising three chapters and 16 articles, were completed in Aug. 1956. Collegiate clubs and branch dojo immediately commenced staging tournaments to try contestant skills and to train judges. This flurry of activity culminated in the 1st All Japan Karate-do Championship Tournament in June 1957.

    Concurrent with their efforts to devise a workable set of contest rules, the JKA instituted a stringent instructor training program. Only the cream of young karate men were admitted to the
    program, and only after graduating honorably from college and attaining 2nd dan rank. In an intensive year of study, candidates were instructed not only in karate but in psychology, physics, anatomy, business management, history and philosophy of physical education and sports, and other subjects. On completing the training program (with 3rd dan and a dissertation) they were assigned to a year's teaching internship. The results of this difficult apprenticeship were a dozen or so highly proficient karate men, well prepared to plant and nourish their art overseas.

    Technically, there are some gaps between JKA Shotokan and the Shotokai; practically, the gaps are very narrow. While most of the Shotokai groups still regularly practice the taikyoku and ten-no-kata that were so dear to Funakoshi, the JKA has abandoned them as repetitious and of questionable value. Stances among most of the Shotokai groups are generally higher than those seen in the JKA, and there is relatively little emphasis on free-style sparring in Shotokai dojo. From about 1960 forward, the JKA has pursued the study of karate from a scientific viewpoint-body mechanics, kinesiology, anatomy, physics, and modern psychology. This, contend most of the Shotokai people, is unnecessary and detrimental to the traditional ways taught by Funakoshi. Each group continues to insist that it practices karate exactly as Funakoshi would practice it were he alive today.

    The present authors, based on the writings of the master, lean toward the JKA claim. Funakoshi frequently said that karate was an unfinished art; it would continue to grow and change, he said, as man's knowledge and circumstances grew and changed See also Funakoshi, Gichin; Japan Karate Association; karate-do. Further reading. The Way of Karate, Beyond Technique, Shigeru Egami, 1976; Shotokan Karate: Free-Fighting Techniques, K. Enoeda and C.J.
    Mack, 1974; Karate-Do Kyohan, Gichin Funakoshi, 1973; Karate-Do, My Way of Life, Gichin Funakoshi, 1977; Karate: The Art of Empty-Hand Fighting, Hidetaka Nishiyama and Richard Brown,
    1959; Shotokan Karate, Peter Ventresca, 1970; Kick Illustrated, Oct. 1981-Jan. 1982; Best Karate, H. Nakayama, 1978 (8 vols.); Black Belt Karate, Jordan Roth, 1974.

    (technical material by GARY GOLDSTEIN and ALEX STERNBERG; historical material by RANDALL G HASSELL).
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  2. Zeddy is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/17/2003 11:14am

    Join us... or die
     Style: CM Boxing/BJJ/RBSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is it the norm to call it "karate-doh" nowadays? When I hear that I tend to think of Homer or play doh. :\
  3. LLL is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/27/2003 5:20pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Pat: What was your point... They don't seem to claim to teach either Shotokan/kai... ; & where was that text you quoted on their site, or why did you quote it from elsewhere?

    But I wouldn't study there, considering that their master is (apart from other things):
    "7 generation lineage from the legendary Shaolin Chaun Fa Gung Fu Master Wong Fei Hung."

    And, for ****'s sake, are moves like this really taught somewhere? Do you really need to train anything at all to think of even one better option...

  4. Shuma-Gorath is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/27/2003 8:34pm

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     Style: BJJ - Homeland Security

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by LLL

    And, for ****'s sake, are moves like this really taught somewhere? Do you really need to train anything at all to think of even one better option...

    That's part of Wansu Dai, a kata. Pay no attention to it as a fighting technique, since it's meant to hit a guy in the balls as he throws a jump kick.
  5. drunkenj is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/27/2003 8:39pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i say bring back inter-university bloodbaths!!!!!!!!!!
  6. liuzg150181 is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/28/2003 3:46am


     Style: fumoffu!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by LLL
    Pat: What was your point... They don't seem to claim to teach either Shotokan/kai... ; & where was that text you quoted on their site, or why did you quote it from elsewhere?

    But I wouldn't study there, considering that their master is (apart from other things):
    "7 generation lineage from the legendary Shaolin Chaun Fa Gung Fu Master Wong Fei Hung."

    And, for ****'s sake, are moves like this really taught somewhere? Do you really need to train anything at all to think of even one better option...

    For one thing,Wong Fei Hung is a Hung Gar master,not shaolin kung fu(unless u consider Hung Gar to be Shaolin).Also,Wong Fei Hung lived until 1930s and being "7 generation lineage from the legendary Shaolin Chaun Fa Gung Fu Master Wong Fei Hung." is too far-fetched~~~
    "People think that judo is only unarmed combat - but you are never unarmed when you can hit someone with a planet. "
    - Uncyclopedia entry on Judo
  7. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/28/2003 10:33am

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     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
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    Originally posted by LLL
    Pat: What was your point... They don't seem to claim to teach either Shotokan/kai... ; & where was that text you quoted on their site, or why did you quote it from elsewhere?

    But I wouldn't study there, considering that their master is (apart from other things):
    "7 generation lineage from the legendary Shaolin Chaun Fa Gung Fu Master Wong Fei Hung."

    And, for ****'s sake, are moves like this really taught somewhere? Do you really need to train anything at all to think of even one better option...

    The POINT is that this is a history forum. The paste came (sirprise surprise serprize) from the history link on the left side of the web page. If you don't see the point in learning ma history then WTF are you doing?


    And please don't take one move from a kata and dismiss a style. Just like still pictures of fighters look off balance and people always say dumb things like "He's open, why didn't the guy hit him with X technique?" When, if you watch the action, rather than a still picture, you'd see the consecutive movements and why they made sense. Like the picture of Andy Hug doing an axe kick. Gee man, that won't really work, all the other guy has to kick him in the nads, dude.

    And I dunno, I like practicing kicks from the ground myself and (not to brag...) they are pretty effective. I used to watch the Aikido guys in Kaimuki and have tried to adopt their technique; they keep fighting in midair, midthrow, and on the ground. Sometimes sparring someone thinks that they are going to score or have a big advantage when they throw me but I sometimes can side kick 'em or leg sweep, or sizzor take down, as I land. As my ex-grandfather in law said (he was 89) he watched a nword fight a white guy and the white guy had a blade and the nword got on his back and kept spinning and kicking and never got cut. It also brings to mind an Am. Kempo instructor who was very small and he'd fight from the ground a lot, doing sweeps and kicks, he was hard to hit; told me he'd had to test against a couple 6'3" guys to get his belt and learned small man techniques. He'd use traps to try and bring you down when attacked, also. Though a karate/kempo dude, he knew, like BJJers know, that on the ground a smaller person gains relative advantage.
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  8. Ronin is offline

    Merry Christmas Bitch

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2003 10:38am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Canadian Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I liked the part about how the JKA branched out to study how physics and bio mechanice and kinesiology and anatomy relate to Karate. In his book "dynamic Karate" Nakayama mentions the same thing.
    How much do you think THAT changed karate ( shotokan) ?
  9. X_plosion is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2003 11:40am


     

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    "How much do you think THAT changed karate ( shotokan) ?"

    Hi! I'm new here. Here'ss my two cent's worth on the question:

    1. The teaching methodology was something Westerners could relate to. This could have influenced the US Air Force's Strategic Air Command to choose the JKA as its official Karate instructors.

    2. By virtue of of its using Western Scientific Methods, the methodology increased worldwide prestige for the already successful JKA.

    3. Perhaps it could explain the unique characteristics that JKA style Shotokan has (e.g. Mechanical Basics, precise standards for performance, etc.)

    4. It gave a standard syllabus that all affiliate schools could base their lessons on. Some of the senior teachers had different ways of interpreting posture, power generation, etc, while still adhering to the "core teachings" set by Nakayama et al.

    Just my take on the matter.
  10. Ronin is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/28/2003 11:50am

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     Style: Canadian Shidokan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I was refering to the technical aspects of shotokan, should have been specific.
    I know that the one shot, one kill, theory did NOT change.
    The way the reverse punch was thrown slightly changed.
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