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  1. Lu Tze is offline

    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

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    5,018

    Posted On:
    3/28/2008 10:24am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by gabrielsama
    [stuff]
    I don't train for self defence, I doubt many of the people here do. I train because I enjoy it, it's as simple as that.

    The point is though, if you're going to be learning something, you might as well make sure what you're learning is valid. There's really no excuse for taking a martial art with zero fight application, you might as well do something else.
  2. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/28/2008 10:31am

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by gabrielsama
    Let me rephrase.

    About not fighting-I'm being realistic. I live on friggen CAPE COD, the chances of me actually ever having to fight in any situation is about 1 in a million.

    You all go on about self-defense, but unless you guys all live in the ghet-to and walk around on the street in a pink tutu with hundred dollar bills hanging off you, you're never going to use 95% of the self-defense you learn. People don't just get randomly attacked. I've lived 22 years and have never been attacked. So, yes, martial arts teaches self-defense. However, I understand that chance is good I will never use it for that purpose. And no matter how macho you are, you're probably never going to either (unless you go around trying to start fights to prove your a high and mighty martial artist).

    As far as the taunting goes, that was a little tongue in cheek. I'm a very unimposing type person, and I like to tease people that I may look weak, but I'm totally a ninja. I am no such thing. It's about poking fun of myself in front of my friends rather than robbing little kids' lunch monies.

    I'm in it for more than the workout. I like learning things, and it doesn't take a friggen genius to raise and lower a heavy bar. I gain flexibilty, strength, and wind in one fun set of exercises. There is a sense of camaraderie to it as well. Plus, it's fun. I'm doing martial arts and learning them...I'm just not kicking the crap out of people-apparantly the definition of a "twue" martial art by some people's definition.

    I live in Dennis, and I've seen several martial arts schools in the area.
    Dude, you're a fucking idiot. I've been to Dennis, visit Cape Cod every year and you're right. The chances of you getting your ass kicked over there is very minimal. Do you live with your parents? Are you never planning on traveling in your life? What if the day came along where you met a pissed off visitor, maybe even me. You're a fool, congratulations for being ignorant.
  3. SBG-ape is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/28/2008 10:49am


     Style: Jiu-jitsu & HEMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
  4. Sophist is offline
    Sophist's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    3/29/2008 1:59am


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega the Merciless
    Dude, you're a fucking idiot. I've been to Dennis, visit Cape Cod every year and you're right. The chances of you getting your ass kicked over there is very minimal. Do you live with your parents? Are you never planning on traveling in your life? What if the day came along where you met a pissed off visitor, maybe even me. You're a fool, congratulations for being ignorant.
    Omega, if you turned up on his doorstep sometime in the next few years, and you were pissed off and wanted to hurt him, it would make very little difference whether he'd spent these years training or not. Ditto if he runs into someone packing a knife, or a gun, or a group of five or six guys.

    Gabriel makes a valid point. In a great many places on Earth, the day to day risk of getting beaten up is pretty damn low. In the places where the risk is higher, a lot of the people who would willingly pick a fight go around armed, or with large groups. The risk reduction you can get from spending a good chunk of your life doing MA is pretty minimal, even if you had some wonderful training program guaranteed to turn you into a UFC fighter within five years. It might even be viewed as of questionable benefit, given that once you have some fighting ability you might be tempted to let your de-escalation skills slide when you scent a real life test.

    Filling people's heads with unnecessary fear is bullshit when RBSD people do it, and it's bullshit if we do it. Our solutions are marginally less bullshit: sure, train realistically, and you'll learn techniques that are actually valuable in one on one unarmed combat. But, consider your lifetime odds of being hospitalised as a result of one on one unarmed combat for some injury worse than one you've picked up through training. It's probably not a big worry, unless you're one undiplomatic ************.

    (I'm not saying it never happens. I do know precisely one guy who did end up in hospital after two guys bust into his house after he answered the door, punched him in the face, and stole his laptop. It was a standard precaution; he had a bit of facial bruising, nothing worse. However, I know vastly more people who haven't had anything like that happen to them, ever, and many of those wouldn't think anything of picking up a black eye from a training session.)

    In any case, the top tips for self-defence are, as far as I know, to be aware of your surroundings, to be polite, and to carry some kind of weapon if local laws permit it. Having an unarmed combat back-up plan is way down the list.

    Original poster: when martial arts go bad, really bad, they start to blur into cult territory. If your martial art is showing techniques that would never really work in a real fight, its "martial" portion is pointless. That may be okay, if it's fun or you get something else out of it. If it's trying to reinforce belief in its system by authoritarian etiquette, it's heading in a bad direction. And if it's introducing heavily mystical stuff, you're pretty much at the boundary of art and cult and you should be thinking very hard about exactly what you expect to get out of being there.

    If you still have some hankering for something martial, look round for something with fewer danger signs. Combat sports like judo and boxing, and yes, MMA, tend to be pretty safe on that score; it's the places that think that sharing dubious techniques-for-fighting must also qualify them as a philosophy or science course who're the ones to watch, though even most of those are pretty harmless. I don't really care what you do, as long as you have fun doing it, but I suspect that the more dishonest an art is about objective reality, the less fun you'll find it in the long term.

    Oh, and don't be put off by the nutriders here. Give BJJ a shot, it's great fun.
  5. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/29/2008 2:51am

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Sophist
    Omega, if you turned up on his doorstep sometime in the next few years, and you were pissed off and wanted to hurt him, it would make very little difference whether he'd spent these years training or not. Ditto if he runs into someone packing a knife, or a gun, or a group of five or six guys.

    Gabriel makes a valid point. In a great many places on Earth, the day to day risk of getting beaten up is pretty damn low. In the places where the risk is higher, a lot of the people who would willingly pick a fight go around armed, or with large groups. The risk reduction you can get from spending a good chunk of your life doing MA is pretty minimal, even if you had some wonderful training program guaranteed to turn you into a UFC fighter within five years. It might even be viewed as of questionable benefit, given that once you have some fighting ability you might be tempted to let your de-escalation skills slide when you scent a real life test.

    Filling people's heads with unnecessary fear is bullshit when RBSD people do it, and it's bullshit if we do it. Our solutions are marginally less bullshit: sure, train realistically, and you'll learn techniques that are actually valuable in one on one unarmed combat. But, consider your lifetime odds of being hospitalised as a result of one on one unarmed combat for some injury worse than one you've picked up through training. It's probably not a big worry, unless you're one undiplomatic ************.

    (I'm not saying it never happens. I do know precisely one guy who did end up in hospital after two guys bust into his house after he answered the door, punched him in the face, and stole his laptop. It was a standard precaution; he had a bit of facial bruising, nothing worse. However, I know vastly more people who haven't had anything like that happen to them, ever, and many of those wouldn't think anything of picking up a black eye from a training session.)

    In any case, the top tips for self-defence are, as far as I know, to be aware of your surroundings, to be polite, and to carry some kind of weapon if local laws permit it. Having an unarmed combat back-up plan is way down the list.

    Original poster: when martial arts go bad, really bad, they start to blur into cult territory. If your martial art is showing techniques that would never really work in a real fight, its "martial" portion is pointless. That may be okay, if it's fun or you get something else out of it. If it's trying to reinforce belief in its system by authoritarian etiquette, it's heading in a bad direction. And if it's introducing heavily mystical stuff, you're pretty much at the boundary of art and cult and you should be thinking very hard about exactly what you expect to get out of being there.

    If you still have some hankering for something martial, look round for something with fewer danger signs. Combat sports like judo and boxing, and yes, MMA, tend to be pretty safe on that score; it's the places that think that sharing dubious techniques-for-fighting must also qualify them as a philosophy or science course who're the ones to watch, though even most of those are pretty harmless. I don't really care what you do, as long as you have fun doing it, but I suspect that the more dishonest an art is about objective reality, the less fun you'll find it in the long term.

    Oh, and don't be put off by the nutriders here. Give BJJ a shot, it's great fun.
    Dude, did you see the part where I agree with him? It's still ignorant. I don't live in fucking fantasy land and **** fucking happens. "I haven't been assaulted in 22 years." Whopdi fucking dooo.

    This guy is being so ambiguous of his purpose that as far as I'm concerned he's a little fucking nerd troll. "I'm in the wrong martial art but I don't need to fight even though that's what martial arts is about"

    3 Day Eventing: Dressage, Cross country and arena jumping. First called the "Militaire," the Three Day Event has its roots as a test for horses used as cavalry mounts. The predecessor to eventing originally began as a form of endurance riding, without jumping or galloping. Such competitions included a ride in 1892, travelling a 360 mile distance from Berlin to Vienna (the winner completed the ride in 71 hours and 26 minutes). However, these competitions did little to prepare horses and riders for actual combat, and so around the end of the 1800s, the French began raids militaires, which was the true forerunner to the three-day event.

    Now why don't you ask the competitors whether they were going to bring their horses to war. Ain't going to happen despite the fact that's what the competition was about. That's what martial arts is about. It's about fighting. Being prepared to fight. All the exercises are based on that.

    You want to get into shape? Go running. There's plenty of non bullshit stuff for you to get into but it's all about fighting and if you learn to defend yourself along the way then there's the bonus. Running is really good defense I hear.
  6. madmonkey is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/29/2008 6:58am


     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    just checked out the wiki thread. Seemed like most kung fu styles till the bit at the end about Barbara Nigelli and SPEAKING TO THE DEAD!!. I wonder what advice her deceased teacher offered her on running her business?
  7. goosetherumfoodle is offline
    goosetherumfoodle's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    3/29/2008 9:04am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "I don't need to learn self-defense because I never leave cape cod." -Tell that to your sifu and see what he says.

    Ha. If you want to taunt your friends by pretending to be a ninja, then it sounds to me like you found the right martial art.

    If you want to really freak out your friends you need to buy the latest LARPing gear: http://www.medievalcollectibles.com/...apons-840.html
  8. Cullion is offline
    Cullion's Avatar

    Everybody was Kung Fu fighting

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    Posted On:
    3/29/2008 9:56am

    supporting member
     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't mind if people want to do martial-themed fitness without really sparring or pressure testing stuff. I wish I could do half the things I see wushu competitors doing on youtube.

    but.. if this MA has a track record of being cultlike you probably ought to look elsewhere. If you don't want to fight but just prefer to hit pads to keep in shape rather than run around a track etc.. then look for a cardio-kickboxing class or something.
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  9. gabrielsama is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/26/2008 2:16pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ~Update~

    Not likely that anyone apart from me cares about this thread, but I thought I'd update for proprieties sake.
    I continued training in Poekoelan Tjimindie Tulen. I try and keep my eyes open for stuff that would never work in real life, and I take most things with a grain of salt, but I'm enjoying myself.
    I stand by the fact that I'll probably never need to actually fight. Yes, I intend to leave the Cape sometime, however, fact remains that I used to live in a city ghetto where murders were frequent, and I have still never been in a fight. If I get into a fight and don't do so well, I'll have a word with my instructors.
    I believe that most people who train martial arts aren't doing it for the sole purpose of self-defense, though...if that were the end goal, wouldn't it be easier to just keep a gun on you at all times rather than spending years of arduous physical training to become proficient at self-defense? Different things draw us to martial arts, and if what brings me here isn't what brings you here, too damned bad. I think there's a name for people who expect to be attacked at every turn, despite all evidence to the contrary...can't remember what it is...
    This forum and the posts hereabouts about Poekoelan Tjimindie pop up in my head when the crazy, cultish side of PTT shows up. We do a lot of feeling the animals. "You're not feeling the animal!" Whoa, lady-I don't know what you're doing at the zoo, but I don't really want to feel anything.
    When the Ouija stuff outweighs the training, then I'll cut my losses and find an MA with less comminicating with the dead. Until then, it's not so bad.


    ~Gabriel: pretend-ninja, necromancer in training, fucking idiot in fear for his life from Ted Kennedy
  10. Zendetta is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    9/26/2008 2:24pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MMA, functional JKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by gabrielsama
    I live on sunny Cape Cod, and I train because it's a good workout
    Swim.

    The money you save can be spent on Bruce Lee DVDs.
    "You know what I like about you, William? You like guns AND meditation."
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