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  1. blackburntagb is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2008 5:14am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Tae Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thought I'd make a few points (or clear up points that have already been made):

    Wallace practiced wrestling in high school and college, and studied Judo while in the Air Force. He comes from a grappling background, and his grappling skills are very good. If you think he's a "grappler hater", then watch his original series of instructional tapes. Vol. 12, 13 and 14 deal with taking down strikers and fighting on the ground.

    Wallace kicked only with his left leg because he tore ligaments in his right knee (the anterior cruciate ligament and medial collateral ligament) after his Judo training partner landed directly on top of his knee joint when Wallace was practicing a reaping hip throw.

    Rather than bitch and moan about how badly injured he was, he took up Shorin Ryu Karate while recovering from surgery on his knee. He began studying while stationed in Okinawa with the air force, and he received his black belt in 9 months. He was training from 4 in the afternoon until midnight, 7 days a week.

    Shorin Ryu includes only waist-height and below kicks. Wallace started off kicking low (i.e. he learned leg kicks before head kicks), then as he gained experience in Karate point tournaments, he figured he needed tactics to improve his chances of winning. He did this by fighting side on (thus removing most targets) and developing his flexibility and kicking ability to such an extent that he became one of the best kickers in the world.

    I agree with Wallace in his opinion of MMA fighters (not MMA itself). I am 100% behind the idea of cross-training ("mixed martial arts"), as I believe it can only make you a stronger fighter. Believe it or not, Wallace was one of the earliest advocates of cross-training, because he trained in Judo, wrestling, Karate, Kickboxing and boxing. He didn't train elbows or knees in competition because Thai Boxing wasn't well known back in the 60s, 70s and 80s; at least, not as much as it is now.

    For those who think Wallace was a coward for not fighting in low-kick contests. Um, newsflash - people who spar / fight / rumble / whatever you want to call it, in front of televised audiences are "entertainers" and are paid to entertain. At the time, Wallace was giving the fans what they wanted to see. The audience, not the fighters, dictate the rules over time. As entertainers, we give the fans what they want to see, right? So back when Wallace was fighting, nobody in the audience wanted to see elbows, knees or low kicks. They wanted to see the flashy stuff, and Wallace certainly delivered plenty of that.

    I honestly don't think the audience has changed all that much. Noticed how in MMA matches the crowd boos when the fight goes to the ground and looks like nothing more than gay softcore porn? Two sweaty guys holding each other for minutes at a time? The crowd wants to see knockouts with flashy techniques like punches and kicks to the head.

    I agree with Wallace in that many of today's MMA fighters are sloppy. The majority don't train don't train basic techniqes. Your average MMA fighter will probably NEVER punch as sharply, or cleanly as a boxer; your average MMA fighter will probably NEVER punch as sharply, or as cleanly as a Tae Kwon Do practitioner. I think what Wallace is getting at is that many MMA fighters today, including lots of the top UFC guys, are very poor technicians. Their technique is sloppy - it looks f-ing UGLY!!! I say MMA is going back to the "throw and hope" days of the 50s and 60s. Wallace took combat sports forward; MMA events like the UFC is taking it back, I think.

    If you think I don't know what I'm talking about, you're wrong. I train TKD, boxing, BJJ, and Bill Wallace's "Superfoot System."

    I've had seven fights in the cage so far, and I've won all of them by head kick KO. Oh, and it was a front leg "Wallace" head kick. Go figure.
  2. PointyShinyBurn is online now
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    Gnarly King of Half-Guard

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2008 5:27am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by blackburntagb
    I've had seven fights in the cage so far, and I've won all of them by head kick KO. Oh, and it was a front leg "Wallace" head kick. Go figure.
    May I ask your name, please?
  3. HonkyTonkMan is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2008 6:47am

    supporting member
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by blackburntagb
    Believe it or not, Wallace was one of the earliest advocates of cross-training, because he trained in Judo, wrestling, Karate, Kickboxing and boxing. He didn't train elbows or knees in competition because Thai Boxing wasn't well known back in the 60s, 70s and 80s; at least, not as much as it is now.
    Just because someone trains in two or three arts doesnt mean they are an advocate of cross training.
    You , yourself said that he only took up Karate because he could no longer do Judo. We must also realise that BW first MA's were grappling arts and not stand up ones. Therefore one must make the assumptive leap that BW did NOT believe in cross training. He merely did it due to his unfortunate circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackburntagb
    I agree with Wallace in that many of today's MMA fighters are sloppy. The majority don't train don't train basic techniqes. Your average MMA fighter will probably NEVER punch as sharply, or cleanly as a boxer; your average MMA fighter will probably NEVER punch as sharply or cleanly as a Tae Kwon Do practitioner.
    It helps us if you can stop repeating yourself, repeating yourself.
    Dont you mean kick as sharply, as a TKD practioner?

    Of course, you are missing the point. MMA fighters/practitioners dont WANT to punch as cleanly as a boxer or kick as cleanly as a TKDoer...why you ask? Because they are MMA fighters. They train in the many aspects of fighting and not just one style.
    Using your logic, boxers dont do kicks as cleanly as an MMA fighter, and TKDoers dont do takedowns as cleanly as a MMA fighter, and neither boxers nor TKDoers grapple as well as a MMA fighter/practitioner.
    So all TKDoers and Boxers are sloppy fighters. Right?
    MMA fighters styles vary like any MA peoples do. Not all TKD people spar the same. Some MMA fighters dont use high head kicks, some do. It all depends on the persons personal style.
    So the comparisons you made arent relevant....much like your point.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackburntagb
    I think what Wallace is getting at is that many MMA fighters today, including lots of the top UFC guys, are very poor technicians. Their technique is sloppy - it looks f-ing UGLY!!! I say MMA is going back to the "throw and hope" days of the 50s and 60s. Wallace took combat sports forward; MMA events like the UFC is taking it back, I think.
    I think we all have good enough reading skills to understand what BW was saying.
    I think boxers hanging all over each other after throwing two or three punches is "sloppy". Therefore boxing (nevermind the fact that it is a corrupt sport) has taken combat sports backwards.
    Yet we must not dismiss the fact that until 1993 MANY people thought that just learning how to punch or kick was good enough. We all now know that it isnt.
    MMA uses techniques that we KNOW work. You cant just rely on one set of skills to win. It takes a combination.

    Quote Originally Posted by blackburntagb
    If you think I don't know what I'm talking about, you're wrong. I train TKD, boxing, BJJ, and Bill Wallace's "Superfoot System."
    Condescending much?

    Quote Originally Posted by blackburntagb
    I've had seven fights in the cage so far, and I've won all of them by head kick KO. Oh, and it was a front leg "Wallace" head kick. Go figure.
    Please post a few things.

    Your fight Organization.
    Videos of said KO's showing you using the "Superfoot" kicking style.

    Until then you are someone who knows how to use a keyboard.
  4. blackburntagb is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2008 8:24am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Tae Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Just because someone trains in two or three arts doesnt mean they are an advocate of cross training.
    You , yourself said that he only took up Karate because he could no longer do Judo. We must also realise that BW first MA's were grappling arts and not stand up ones. Therefore one must make the assumptive leap that BW did NOT believe in cross training. He merely did it due to his unfortunate circumstances."

    Does it count if Bill Wallace himself told me he's an advocate of cross-training?

    "t helps us if you can stop repeating yourself, repeating yourself.
    Dont you mean kick as sharply, as a TKD practioner?"

    You got me on that one. I did mean to write "kick" as sharply as a TKD practitioner. But then, even most MMA fighters these guys can't PUNCH as sharply as a TKD practitioner. By this I'm referring to TRUE TKD fighters (not the watered down McDojo ****) who train proper technique, who often have better punches than most MMA fighters.

    "Of course, you are missing the point. MMA fighters/practitioners dont WANT to punch as cleanly as a boxer or kick as cleanly as a TKDoer...why you ask? Because they are MMA fighters. They train in the many aspects of fighting and not just one style."

    But their basic technique is so r and sloppy that they are not as effective in those areas as they could be. i.e. if they trained punches like a boxer, or kicks like a TKD practitioner, then said MMA fighters could be SO much more effective, and it would make the sport more appealing to audiences.

    "Using your logic, boxers dont do kicks as cleanly as an MMA fighter, and TKDoers dont do takedowns as cleanly as a MMA fighter, and neither boxers nor TKDoers grapple as well as a MMA fighter/practitioner.
    So all TKDoers and Boxers are sloppy fighters. Right?"

    Wrong. Boxers don't do kicks, therefore they can't compare to MMA fighters in that regard. That's why I didn't compare boxers' kicks to MMA fighters' kicks. But both punch, and that's why I compared them against each other. TKD practitioners don't do takedowns in their sport, so therefore they can't be compared in that regard to MMA fighters. But MMA fighters do kick, so both can be compared in that respect. Granted, MMA has produced some quality fighters, but the majority of "professional fighters", in my opinion, are sloppy technicians with some butt ugly techniques.

    "MMA fighters styles vary like any MA peoples do. Not all TKD people spar the same. Some MMA fighters dont use high head kicks, some do. It all depends on the persons personal style."

    I never said fighters' styles don't vary. Of course they do, I know that. Everyone is unique. But I'm referring to the pro MMA fighters who DO use head kicks - their kicks are **** poor compared to other martial artists from traditional backgrounds who use kicks also. Likewise, the MMA fighters who punch have poor technique compared to a boxer.

    I'm not saying MMA fighters shouldn't cross-train. I'm all for that. But they should at least cross train with attention to proper technique. A donkey born in a stable doesn't make it a horse; likewise, a roundhouse kick thrown like a football punt doesn't make it a roundhouse kick.

    "I think boxers hanging all over each other after throwing two or three punches is "sloppy". Therefore boxing (nevermind the fact that it is a corrupt sport) has taken combat sports backwards."

    Name a fight in MMA history that hasn't ended in a clinch, or on the ground after two or three punches? I didn't mention anything about clinching. I think it's natural for a fight to go to the clinch, as both fighters close the distance. I teach the clinch to my students on a regular basis, even though we are first and foremost a TKD school. What I'm talking about is that the two or three punches thrown by boxers before the clinch are sharper, more effective and much "prettier" (which the audience wants to see) than the two or three punches thrown by MMA fighters, again going back to the point about training proper technique.

    If MMA continues to produce fighters with poor, sloppy technique, then it is taking martial arts backwards, not forwards, am I right? If MMA is taking martial arts foward, then surely all the best technicians (punchers, kickers, grapplers, whatever) should be found in MMA? But they are not. The best punchers are found in boxing. The best kickers are found in TKD. The best grapplers are found in BJJ. You won't find the best punchers, kickers or grapplers in MMA. Period.

    With regard to the "corruption", with the size of pay cheques in organisations like the UFC, you really think there won't be corruption in that sport at some point? What about the "wannabe UFC" organisations that promote "backyard MMA"? Think they're not corrupt?

    Besides, this isn't a debate about the corruption of combat sports. It's about the points made by Bill Wallace in BBM with regard to the negative effect that sloppy, punk-ass MMA fighters (not MMA itself) are having on martial arts as a whole.

    If an MMA fighter is successful and humble about it, then I'm all for it. But in truth, most MMA fighters are like, "I'm gonna rip you a new asshole," or "I screwed yo momma with a broken beer bottle last night." I mean, WTF? Where did the humility and courtesy from martial arts go? Looking at the attitudes of these guys, they are NOT martial artists. They're just a bunch of red neck trailer trash brawlers.

    "Yet we must not dismiss the fact that until 1993 MANY people thought that just learning how to punch or kick was good enough. We all now know that it isnt."

    Never said just learning how to punch or kick was good enough. I've always believed in sparring. Bill Wallace teaches more than just learning how to kick or punch.

    "MMA uses techniques that we KNOW work. You cant just rely on one set of skills to win. It takes a combination."

    MMA does use technique that work, I know that. But the majority of MMA fighters these days can't get the techniques right. They throw half-assed "lookalike" techniques and land maybe one lucky shot every now and again. This is because they don't train the basics like in traditional MA.

    "Condescending much?"

    Whatever. Just wanted to let you guys know I actually cross train out of my comfort zonel; I don't just stay in my shiny little dojang and pretend my style can stop a nuclear bomb. Or whatever.

    "Until then you are someone who knows how to use a keyboard."

    I agree. Until then just tell me to STFU, or whatever. I'll post videos shortly.
  5. DerAuslander is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2008 8:34am

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Blackburn,

    You have claimed an MMA fight record.

    Verify it or face the concequences.
  6. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2008 9:10am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by blackburntagb
    Thought I'd make a few points (or clear up points that have already been made):

    Wallace practiced wrestling in high school and college, and studied Judo while in the Air Force. He comes from a grappling background, and his grappling skills are very good. If you think he's a "grappler hater", then watch his original series of instructional tapes. Vol. 12, 13 and 14 deal with taking down strikers and fighting on the ground.

    Wallace kicked only with his left leg because he tore ligaments in his right knee (the anterior cruciate ligament and medial collateral ligament) after his Judo training partner landed directly on top of his knee joint when Wallace was practicing a reaping hip throw.

    Rather than bitch and moan about how badly injured he was, he took up Shorin Ryu Karate while recovering from surgery on his knee. He began studying while stationed in Okinawa with the air force, and he received his black belt in 9 months. He was training from 4 in the afternoon until midnight, 7 days a week.

    Shorin Ryu includes only waist-height and below kicks. Wallace started off kicking low (i.e. he learned leg kicks before head kicks), then as he gained experience in Karate point tournaments, he figured he needed tactics to improve his chances of winning. He did this by fighting side on (thus removing most targets) and developing his flexibility and kicking ability to such an extent that he became one of the best kickers in the world.

    I agree with Wallace in his opinion of MMA fighters (not MMA itself). I am 100% behind the idea of cross-training ("mixed martial arts"), as I believe it can only make you a stronger fighter. Believe it or not, Wallace was one of the earliest advocates of cross-training, because he trained in Judo, wrestling, Karate, Kickboxing and boxing. He didn't train elbows or knees in competition because Thai Boxing wasn't well known back in the 60s, 70s and 80s; at least, not as much as it is now.

    For those who think Wallace was a coward for not fighting in low-kick contests. Um, newsflash - people who spar / fight / rumble / whatever you want to call it, in front of televised audiences are "entertainers" and are paid to entertain. At the time, Wallace was giving the fans what they wanted to see. The audience, not the fighters, dictate the rules over time. As entertainers, we give the fans what they want to see, right? So back when Wallace was fighting, nobody in the audience wanted to see elbows, knees or low kicks. They wanted to see the flashy stuff, and Wallace certainly delivered plenty of that.

    I honestly don't think the audience has changed all that much. Noticed how in MMA matches the crowd boos when the fight goes to the ground and looks like nothing more than gay softcore porn? Two sweaty guys holding each other for minutes at a time? The crowd wants to see knockouts with flashy techniques like punches and kicks to the head.

    I agree with Wallace in that many of today's MMA fighters are sloppy. The majority don't train don't train basic techniqes. Your average MMA fighter will probably NEVER punch as sharply, or cleanly as a boxer; your average MMA fighter will probably NEVER punch as sharply, or as cleanly as a Tae Kwon Do practitioner. I think what Wallace is getting at is that many MMA fighters today, including lots of the top UFC guys, are very poor technicians. Their technique is sloppy - it looks f-ing UGLY!!! I say MMA is going back to the "throw and hope" days of the 50s and 60s. Wallace took combat sports forward; MMA events like the UFC is taking it back, I think.

    If you think I don't know what I'm talking about, you're wrong. I train TKD, boxing, BJJ, and Bill Wallace's "Superfoot System."
    Trolling.

    I've had seven fights in the cage so far, and I've won all of them by head kick KO. Oh, and it was a front leg "Wallace" head kick. Go figure.
    Proof please or GTFO.

    Oh and due to trolling we need your legit name and org.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 4/08/2008 9:13am at .
  7. Wolf is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2008 9:41am

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    to blackburntagb:

    We need organization of fights, name of show, approximate date. If you provide this and it's verified you will be given the appropriate fighter tag. If you don't you will be asked to retract yours statement and state you were lieing. If you don't do either you will be banned.
  8. blackburntagb is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/08/2008 9:41am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Tae Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What the hell is "trolling?"
  9. Wolf is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2008 9:44am

    staff
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf
    to blackburntagb:

    We need organization of fights, name of show, approximate date. If you provide this and it's verified you will be given the appropriate fighter tag. If you don't you will be asked to retract yours statement and state you were lieing. If you don't do either you will be banned.
    p.s. you have 24 hours to comply.
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/08/2008 9:45am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by blackburntagb
    What the hell is "trolling?
    Quote Originally Posted by blackburntagb
    Until then just tell me to STFU, or whatever.
    Please stop and rethink your next denial.
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