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  1. bemused is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2008 4:58pm


     Style: JSW

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by carol56
    Thanks, Kathy, for the welcome. I may be off a little on my dates, but I think I left around the same time as Ken Kochan.
    Welcome, Carol. You and I probably don't know each other. I started Jung SuWon training in 1989. I am very interested in hearing about what happened before and after my time in COL.

    The TYK vs. AG trial should be an interesting spectacle. I think there are parties being planned.
  2. bemused is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2008 5:11pm


     Style: JSW

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by HerLesson
    I believe since shs didn't have the charm to become a cult leader, he read a book on how to take a stupid ugly woman and make her into a cult leader! Guess he didn't realize he would make a uncontrollable Frankenstein and turn on everyone including him.
    I think TYK came up with all the cult leader ideas on her own. She brought SHS in to handle the bureaucratic details. If anyone is to blame for making TYK the way she is, it's probably her parents or another childhood authority figure.
  3. clarehoare is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/01/2008 6:30pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    idk, i recall people like shadow on here saying that he recalls SHS studying about the scientology money making system, and mentioning things to him in passing, since shadow is here I'd like him to comment on that instead of me saying anymore.

    From having serious discussions with Kim's students from the 70's I have good reason to believe that all 'bad' occurred after SHS joined. My understanding from one of the people I have spoken with was that she had a solid enough MA background to teach them up to at least the black belt level.

    bemused, you studied cults, this stuff is straight out of the play book. Based on interaction I have had with people who trained with Kim before SHS was around, she wasn't all bad. In fact from seeing SHS/Kim start many businesses, i think COL in its current incarnation was a business experiment from the start. If you watch the video that 'ryan' posted it is clear to see that everything in that video, HAPPENED!! TO US!!

    I have mulled over if SHS was part of the the conspiracy or a 'victim' like the rest of us, and I am now leaning towards NOT a victim. This is something I have posted about a LOT.

    I really believe that his knowledge and study skills have been essential to the relative 'success' or at least past success, in COL.

    Who can imagine him at COL1, while everyone is waiting in the racket ball court... "Ma'am wait until they've started singing and chanting when 25+ minutes has passed we'll go down and then you can." I could see that happening in the early stages of COL until it became second nature to Kim to perform this protocol.

    I can really with a lot of authority now say that there was never any positive intent of the COL program.. Things do not appear coincidental now that they eventually rolled into a cult. It seems now clear and present that those who were recruited for the COL program were part of a pure business plan. There was never any positive purpose towards anyone other than the leaders.

    I use that plural purposely.
    Last edited by clarehoare; 4/01/2008 6:35pm at .
  4. Kathy Kim is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/01/2008 9:14pm

    supporting member
     Style: Jung SuWOn

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    shs has worked hard for many years. He has also lined his pockets. He isn't doing what he does for nothing. Everyone should get paid for the work they do, but not at the expense of others doing without, or taking from others and pleading poverty, when in fact your coffers are fully loaded.
    Last edited by Kathy Kim; 4/01/2008 10:50pm at .
  5. bemused is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2008 11:56pm


     Style: JSW

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by clarehoare
    idk, i recall people like shadow on here saying that he recalls SHS studying about the scientology money making system, and mentioning things to him in passing, since shadow is here I'd like him to comment on that instead of me saying anymore.

    From having serious discussions with Kim's students from the 70's I have good reason to believe that all 'bad' occurred after SHS joined. My understanding from one of the people I have spoken with was that she had a solid enough MA background to teach them up to at least the black belt level.

    bemused, you studied cults, this stuff is straight out of the play book. Based on interaction I have had with people who trained with Kim before SHS was around, she wasn't all bad. In fact from seeing SHS/Kim start many businesses, i think COL in its current incarnation was a business experiment from the start. If you watch the video that 'ryan' posted it is clear to see that everything in that video, HAPPENED!! TO US!!

    I have mulled over if SHS was part of the the conspiracy or a 'victim' like the rest of us, and I am now leaning towards NOT a victim. This is something I have posted about a LOT.

    I really believe that his knowledge and study skills have been essential to the relative 'success' or at least past success, in COL.

    Who can imagine him at COL1, while everyone is waiting in the racket ball court... "Ma'am wait until they've started singing and chanting when 25+ minutes has passed we'll go down and then you can." I could see that happening in the early stages of COL until it became second nature to Kim to perform this protocol.

    I can really with a lot of authority now say that there was never any positive intent of the COL program.. Things do not appear coincidental now that they eventually rolled into a cult. It seems now clear and present that those who were recruited for the COL program were part of a pure business plan. There was never any positive purpose towards anyone other than the leaders.

    I use that plural purposely.
    Cults go way back in human history. Many cult leaders have perfected their manipulative techniques by trial and error, without any instruction manual to go by. When SHS started reading about $cientology money making schemes, it was probably to find out how to capitalize on the cult structure that was already in place. I don't think he designed TYK's cult. I do think he made it more profitable.

    It also appears that TYK has gotten progressively worse over the years. I don't think there was a sudden change when SHS showed up. She got worse just in the years I was there, demanding more recognition and having more tantrums.

    The personality disorders that motivate her to be a cult leader she has had from early childhood, if not from birth. Keeping people waiting is a narcissistic and histrionic trait. I don't think she needed any encouragement from SHS or anyone else.

    SHS, MBF, TCS, MEA, EAS, SAK, and others in the upper eschelon have been there long enough and participated in enough questionable activities to be co-conspirators. I think they are victims as well, but SHS has become quite hardened.

    Based on my observations of SHS, I have formed an opinion of him as a heartless, bullying, socially clueless tightwad. I never liked him. (To varying degrees I have genuinely liked all the other leaders whose initials I listed.) TYK and SHS need each other. TYK couldn't have organized her life without him, and he couldn't have learned to be amoral without her.
  6. HerLesson is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/02/2008 9:46am


     Style: Tae Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chicabonita
    Hi Carol56,

    Welcome to our cozy little family ! I really do hope that we will see more of you up here. There are a couple of courthouses in San Jose, CA so I don't know the exact address. Who knows what stunt TYK will pull before trial date anyway. With that said, I will be there whether we are allowed in the court room or not.

    Carol, thank you for your kind words. I was there for about 20 years. Leaving was not easy to do. I didn't want to do it. But I did it because I felt it was the right thing to do in my heart and conscience. I could no longer support TYK anymore. That's why I won't be on her side of the court room. And I want her along with my mom and stepdad still there, to know that while I sit there, it was them that unwelcomed me first and told me to stay away.

    I wish I remembered you better. You started around the same time as I did. My folks moved out from Vermont to be with TYK, but I started around 1985. My attendance number is 177. I will probably remember you better if I see you.

    By the way that brainwashing quote is right on.
    Weren't the Jewish people also known by numbers in the concentration camps? They had no choice!

    Surprised she didn't tattoo numbers on the Col'ers foreheads.
    Last edited by HerLesson; 4/02/2008 10:01am at .
  7. HerLesson is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/02/2008 9:58am


     Style: Tae Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In my opinion, the piranha is a sadist and shs is a masochist since she talks about him like he is crap and he continues to worship her (guess he has no pride). Although from what is posted, the whole COL crew must be masochist, they seem to like the abuse from an old plastic prostitute (as previously posted).
  8. carol56 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/02/2008 10:07am

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     Style: Tae Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chicabonita
    Hi Carol56,

    Welcome to our cozy little family ! I really do hope that we will see more of you up here. There are a couple of courthouses in San Jose, CA so I don't know the exact address. Who knows what stunt TYK will pull before trial date anyway. With that said, I will be there whether we are allowed in the court room or not.

    Carol, thank you for your kind words. I was there for about 20 years. Leaving was not easy to do. I didn't want to do it. But I did it because I felt it was the right thing to do in my heart and conscience. I could no longer support TYK anymore. That's why I won't be on her side of the court room. And I want her along with my mom and stepdad still there, to know that while I sit there, it was them that unwelcomed me first and told me to stay away.

    I wish I remembered you better. You started around the same time as I did. My folks moved out from Vermont to be with TYK, but I started around 1985. My attendance number is 177. I will probably remember you better if I see you.

    By the way that brainwashing quote is right on.
    Thank you, Chicabonita, for the welcome. I'm sure you will recognize me when you see me. I'm not sure I would recognize you...you were quite young when I left. I joined shortly after you all came from Vermont. I remember your family first lived over on the east side of San Jose.

    My experience of leaving was almost exactly as yours, and I, too, felt I was unwelcomed and pushed out. I know it was my "attitude", and they were trying to teach me "a lesson". In my heart I knew I could never commit my mind body and soul to the Grandmaster, and she was unwilling to accept anything less.

    Thanks, again, and I will try to keep up with you all. I have a full and wonderful life, and I travel quite a bit. I 'm leaving for England and Spain on Saturday and will be back in a few weeks.

    Take care and follow you heart...
  9. carol56 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/02/2008 10:29am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Tae Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by bemused
    Cults go way back in human history. Many cult leaders have perfected their manipulative techniques by trial and error, without any instruction manual to go by. When SHS started reading about $cientology money making schemes, it was probably to find out how to capitalize on the cult structure that was already in place. I don't think he designed TYK's cult. I do think he made it more profitable.

    It also appears that TYK has gotten progressively worse over the years. I don't think there was a sudden change when SHS showed up. She got worse just in the years I was there, demanding more recognition and having more tantrums.

    The personality disorders that motivate her to be a cult leader she has had from early childhood, if not from birth. Keeping people waiting is a narcissistic and histrionic trait. I don't think she needed any encouragement from SHS or anyone else.

    SHS, MBF, TCS, MEA, EAS, SAK, and others in the upper eschelon have been there long enough and participated in enough questionable activities to be co-conspirators. I think they are victims as well, but SHS has become quite hardened.

    Based on my observations of SHS, I have formed an opinion of him as a heartless, bullying, socially clueless tightwad. I never liked him. (To varying degrees I have genuinely liked all the other leaders whose initials I listed.) TYK and SHS need each other. TYK couldn't have organized her life without him, and he couldn't have learned to be amoral without her.
    Wow, Bemused, you summed it up quite nicely. I couldn't agree with you more on your assessment of TKY and the instructors.

    After leaving I studied cults quite thoroughly, and, just like the utube video someone posted, they all follow the same formula. Coincidentally, I will be travelling to London this next week to attend a conference on Cults at London College.

    Thanks, Bemused, for the earlier welcome, and for all of your insight.

  10. bemused is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/02/2008 11:30am


     Style: JSW

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by HerLesson
    Weren't the Jewish people also known by numbers in the concentration camps? They had no choice!

    Surprised she didn't tattoo numbers on the Col'ers foreheads.
    The attendance numbers were merely IDs in the Jung SuWon student database, no more malevolent than my employee number at the company for which I work.

    Those of us in COL had COL numbers, which matched the last two digits of the phone numbers of our pagers. We used these to identify ourselves back in the 90s when our pagers had only numeric messaging capability. These numbers changed whenever we upgraded our pager service. Within full-time COL, these numbers were pretty much in order of belt rank, with TYK and SHS as 01 and 02. Part-timers and children had higher numbers. When I left I was 08.

    I don't know what happened after I left, but when cell phones became common, this COL number system might have become obsolete.
    Last edited by bemused; 4/02/2008 9:38pm at .
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