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  1. WhiteBear is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2008 1:53pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: jung suwon

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    TYK is a grandmaster of thought control, deception and manipulation. She is the most greedy and self serving individual I have ever met. TYK is a con-artist and a cult leader. If you don't believe me or if you are still there studying under her, do some research and you will see the truth about her. Try the International Cultic Studies Association or anything written by Margaret Singer, Ph.D, you will find that TYK fits the classic cult leader description.

    Thank you to everyone who has shared their personal story.
  2. Kathy Kim is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2008 1:56pm

    supporting member
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    You are more than welcome WhiteBear :)
    The real deal. No muss, no fuss, just truth
  3. bemused is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/21/2008 2:17pm


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    I think "complicit" is the wrong word. Traditionally, the response to the threat of being overpowered has been called "fight or flight," but recent research into the functioning of the amygdala brain region has determined that this is incomplete. The response is actually "fight, flight, or appeasement." Appeasement in this context is something done out of desperation when neither fight nor flight is possible. It is not the same thing as consent. To some extent, even the law recognizes this: a contract signed under duress is not considered valid.

    In a cult, when the leader is humiliating you, you are afraid to leave and afraid to talk back. Appeasement is the only strategy available if you want to remain a member and not be cast out to what you have come to view as the darkness beyond. In the wider world, appeasement can look like apathy, but it's not. It's the frozen fear that comes from viewing overwhelming problems as unsolvable and inescapable.

    It's true that abuse of power is rampant and has always been so. It is not necessarily true that those who succumb are somehow susceptible because of some character flaw. People have different breaking points, but everyone can be made to succumb eventually, by some method. There's a really good book about this called "Battle for the Mind" by William Sargant. Statistically, cult members differ from the general population very little, only in a slightly greater tendency to be depressed.

    The situation isn't hopeless, though, because capitulation may be common, but so is courage. People may be vulnerable, but they are also resilient. It is incredibly hard to leave a cult, but most cult members leave eventually. Bad governments are overthrown and seldom last more than a few decades. Overwhelming problems are tackled sooner or later. Maybe I'm overoptimistic, but I think there's plenty of hope left.
    Last edited by bemused; 6/21/2008 6:09pm at .
  4. bemused is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/21/2008 2:31pm


     Style: JSW

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteBear
    TYK is a grandmaster of thought control, deception and manipulation. She is the most greedy and self serving individual I have ever met. TYK is a con-artist and a cult leader. If you don't believe me or if you are still there studying under her, do some research and you will see the truth about her. Try the International Cultic Studies Association or anything written by Margaret Singer, Ph.D, you will find that TYK fits the classic cult leader description.

    Thank you to everyone who has shared their personal story.
    How did you know TYK? Were you a Jung SuWon student, a COL member, a friend in the community? It's okay if you would rather not answer, but I am curious.

    I have studied psychology and posess quite a library of cult books. Singer's "Cults in Our Midst" is one of them.

    Alas, current COL members won't see the truth about TYK until they are ready. Every cult has a list of reasons why their leader is different. Cult members are like mushrooms: they are kept in the dark and fed bullshit.
  5. HerLesson is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/21/2008 2:34pm


     Style: Tae Kwon Do

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    Yes, col'ers are the mushrooms and TYK is the bullshit!
  6. WhiteBear is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/22/2008 1:21am

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    Bemused your cult research is far beyond mine. I have wondered about something...how is it that cult leaders all possess similar personalities and ways of manipulation? Is it a mental disorder that makes them do what they do or is it something they seek in finding ways to control people? I understand that cults can form around most any theme. Did TYK plan her cult or did it just evolve based on her greed and wanting everyone to think she is so great?
  7. bemused is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/22/2008 3:14pm


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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteBear
    Bemused your cult research is far beyond mine. I have wondered about something...how is it that cult leaders all possess similar personalities and ways of manipulation? Is it a mental disorder that makes them do what they do or is it something they seek in finding ways to control people? I understand that cults can form around most any theme. Did TYK plan her cult or did it just evolve based on her greed and wanting everyone to think she is so great?
    Janja Lalich's book Take Back Your Life has a great chapter in it called "The Cult Leader." It explains the characteristics and motivations of cult leaders quite well. I also recommend a book about gurus in general called Feet of Clay by Anthony Storr.

    Here's one of my favorite quotes from Lalich's book: "At gatherings of former cult members...participants compare their respective groups and leaders. As people begin to describe their special, enlightened, and unique leader--whether a pastor, therapist, political leader, teacher, lover, or swami--those present are often surprised to learn that their once-revered leaders are actually quite similar in temperament and personality. It seems as if these leaders come from a common mold, sometimes light-heartedly called the "Cookie-Cutter Messiah School."

    Most cult leaders are narcissistic or sociopathic or both. Wikipedia entries for Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Antisocial Personality Disorder are a good place to start. I think TYK has symptoms of Histrionic Personality Disorder and Borderline Personality Disorder as well. All four of these disorders are related, categorized in the Cluster B group in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition (or DSM-IV).

    Narcissists want admiration above all else. Sociopaths want power and pleasure and have no conscience. Histrionics are classic drama queens (or sometimes kings) who want devotion. Borderlines are self-destructive people who fear abandonment. I'm somewhat oversimplifying here.

    I don't think TYK plans very far ahead. Sometimes she gets an idea about how she can make money or gain recognition, but then she gets her followers to figure out how to realize her goal. One trait that all the Cluster B personality disorders have in common is poor impulse control. TYK may talk about the virtue of patience, but this is only for her followers. Her ability to delay gratification is about as long as her attention span.
  8. WhiteBear is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/23/2008 10:55am

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    Thank you Bemused. After reading your post and doing a little more research on Narcissistic Personality Disorder it appears that TYK most definetly fits the description. I noted that people who suffer this disorder act one way in public and another in private. Sure, we could say most everyone does in one way or another yet in TYK's case, her rage and abuse of her followers goes go way over the line. TYK always justifys her screaming rants, beatings of students and humiliation of students in front of their peers as something masters do to build better warriors. Surely you recall the melting of the metal and pounding to make a sharpened sword analogy she used or worse than that "The Lord disciplines those He loves" reasoning. She wanted us to feel that such abusive treatment was "special" and that to be abused by her meant that she "trusted" you and had the "freedom to work with" you. Pretty crazy huh? I wonder how many other masters are so extreme.

    These are all part of her mind control techniques and indeed they work. We as COL desired to please her, to be the perfect student as she was to her master and to avoid being in the hot seat (recieving "fire"). TYK is a mental case. She needs help and intervention.

    Perhaps this information has already been discussed in previous posts so I apologize for bringing it up again...I believe it is important that any new students or those that are not yet deeply involved find out what they are getting into.
  9. Failed Student is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/23/2008 1:21pm


     Style: My Own Do

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    White Bear -

    I think that in Orwell's 1984, there was this same kind of mindthink. .."Love is hate, war is peace", etc. I do not believe that Tae Yun Kim has an original thought in her head, but picks up on her unusual behavior from hearing about or having read to her about other strange behaviors.

    I recall when I was under her influence, I may have at one time or another mentioned some outrageous behavior I had heard or read about, and she said "don't put any ideas into my head". So now I am led to believe that she may have some inner demons that she is dealing with. It certainly seems to be on a par with that, and that she is very open to the power of (negative) suggestion. I certainly hope nobody reads the Fritzl case to her, or she may think about building an underground prison for those that fall out of favor with her.

    The one thing I do remember is that all her programmed students would gang up on her victim du jour, and would reinforce whatever point she was trying to make. In my case, it was the bunch of senior students who sat with me and tried to convince me that everything that existed outside ATC, now JSW, was evil, bad, unworthy. They almost had me convinced, but I guess my roots were too deeply entrenched in reality and so they ultimately failed to brainwash me.
    Last edited by Failed Student; 6/23/2008 1:25pm at .
  10. bemused is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/23/2008 1:29pm


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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    WhiteBear, some of these topics have been covered in previous posts, but there are so many posts--thousands--that a bit of repetition helps readers find things more easily.

    Alas, TYK is beyond help. The prognoses for all the Cluster B disorders are poor, but this is especially true of Narcissistic and Antisocial PDs. Narcissists live in a world in which they are superior to everyone else, so why would they want to change? Sociopaths are not burdened by guilt, so they're not motivated to change either. These disorders are ego-syntonic, that is, they make people feel better about themselves, despite the suffering of other people around them. (Ego-dystonic disorders, such as depression, make people feel worse about themselves, and thus sufferers are more motivated to change.)

    Reframing punishment as elite training or tough love is a common ploy of cult leaders. In the process, they also reframe their abusive behavior as "teaching" and their hypocrisy as special strength, skills, or knowledge that followers lack. It's a pretty clever game.

    Cult leaders get away with this for two reasons. The first is that people are deeply conditioned to obey authority (do a search on Stanley Milgram for more info). The second is that cult followers are seduced due to deep emotional needs. Cult leaders meet these needs to reward followers, consistently at first, and then less consistently as the followers' commitment increases. This is known as a "lowball" or "bait and switch" con.

    It really bugs me that the only defense against cults is to educate potential victims about such con games. It just seems too much like blaming the victim. It would be so much better to cut to the chase and punish the unethical behavior of the leaders. But unless a cult leader breaks the law and there is hard evidence or witnesses willing to come forward, that doesn't happen.

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