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  1. greenguy is offline

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    Oct 2007
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    Posted On:
    3/20/2008 5:40pm


     Style: Former FSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Odacon
    That stupid talentless actor who couldn't fight his way out of a piss soaked paper bag simply refuses to die.

    Talent is all relative. He would fit in with any of the Xena/Hercules/Andromeda?etc... crowd quite well as far as his acting went. Of course none of those people are winning any Emmy Awards but he was passable.


    [Greenguy received a 1 day timeout for not believing this post applied to him.]
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 3/20/2008 6:31pm at . Reason: added note.
  2. CoffeeFan is offline
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    Certified Personal Trainer and Drinker of Coffee

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2008 8:19pm

    supporting member
     Style: SAMBO/BJJ/Judo and others

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wrote a thread on this subject on a Myspace forum back in the day and happened to have it saved on My documents. Here's a copy of what I "wasn't " able to verify.

    One thing that concerns me is Bruce Lee's boxing record. People make claim to his undefeated streak, but a lot of it is very hard to verify. Here’s what I found in Chinese Boxing Records



    FIGHT RECORD:

    1955: William Cheung, Hong Kong..................................Exch.

    1957: Wong Shun-Leung, Hong Kong.............................Exch

    1958: Pu Chang, Hong Kong............................................KO 2

    1958: Gary Elms, USA............................................... ......Won

    1960: Unknown, Seattle, Washington, USA.....................KO 1

    1960: Uechi, Location unavailable...................................KO 1(0:10)

    1963: Unknown, Hong Kong.............................................K O

    1965: Wong Jack-Man, Oakland, California, USA............KO 1

    TOTAL FIGHTS / WON / KNOCKOUTS / LOST

    6/ 6/ 5/ 0



    * record may contain errors or be incomplete. Compiled from articles, computer web-pages, books, and magazine articles.
    Due to the warning at the bottom of the page and the multiple "unknown" listed, I decided to look more into these fights, starting with Gary Elms since he is both American and the one of the only other fighter mentioned on other Bruce Lee pages. I looked first on Boxrec.com



    "No Data Found"



    According to the The Bruce Lee Timeline "1958 (Age 18): ??? - Bruce enters the 1958 Boxing Championships and defeats the reigning three year champion, Gary Elms." Yet there is no record of a 3 year champion named Gary Elms. Furthermore a Google search of Gary Elms only brings up Bruce Lee fan sites that mention the fight. A Wikipedia search also brings no information.



    Deciding to look into some other fighters on the list, I came up with the following:



    1958 or 1959:

    Against Chung on a rooftop in Hong Kong. (Won in 2nd Round).



    1960 or 1961:

    vs. Uechi. (Won in 10 seconds)



    I have been unable to verify either of the two reported boxing matches except from the above FAQ site.

    Does anyone have more information concerning the Bruce Lee boxing record? So far it is looking quite unverifiable.
    I still stand by the statement that his boxing record would be very difficult to verify. Good luck to anyone trying to get to the bottom of it.
  3. Gbemi is offline

    Registered Member

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    Nov 2007
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    Posted On:
    3/21/2008 7:45am


     Style: BJJ (faixa branca)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Original interview of supposed eye witness to match:

    http://home.vtmuseum.org/articles/peterson/rolfint.php

    Relevant quotes for further research:

    Not long after, I was privileged to see Bruce again, not face to face, but in action at the Hong Kong Inter School Boxing Championships. Ironically, his opponent just happened to be good old Gary Elms, one of my schoolmates.
    What School? KIng George V school in Hong Kong

    Match happened in 1958

    Gary Elms was allegedly also known as :

    RC: Gary, also nicknamed "Garung", was one of those irrepressible, but likable nuisances. Although he was considerably lighter and smaller, that didn't stop him from pestering me and others. I'd wrestle him to the ground, pinch his nostrils and force grass into his mouth to make him say "Uncle", but he would never submit. As soon as I got up in frustration, he'd jump me again. He was one tough nut.
    --------------> Finding someone who can help me communicate with St. George V school in HK to verify if such a person attended that school in 1958. Also praying for Boxing record to still be on file. I'm expecting no luck until Monday being an important holiday and all.
  4. Elemental Fist is offline

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    Mar 2008
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    Cairo, Egypt
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    Posted On:
    3/25/2008 3:53pm


     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gbemi
    Original interview of supposed eye witness to match:

    http://home.vtmuseum.org/articles/peterson/rolfint.php

    Relevant quotes for further research:



    What School? KIng George V school in Hong Kong

    Match happened in 1958

    Gary Elms was allegedly also known as :



    --------------> Finding someone who can help me communicate with St. George V school in HK to verify if such a person attended that school in 1958. Also praying for Boxing record to still be on file. I'm expecting no luck until Monday being an important holiday and all.
    That would be nice if someone living in Hong Kong could somehow contact the school to confirm this as either fact or Bullshido.
  5. shironinja is offline
    shironinja's Avatar

    shadow weight

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    Posted On:
    3/25/2008 6:24pm

    supporting member
     Style: yes

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    On a related / unrelated note...

    This site says "kung fu" was entered into the english language in 1966.

    http://www.bl.uk/learning/langlit/ch...loanwords.html

    Ergo anything that was done before that point may have been called boxing or "chinese boxing" yes but was more than likely just a shitty kung fu point-fighting session with random nobodies.
    Now or never.
  6. G8 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/25/2008 8:33pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by shironinja
    On a related / unrelated note...

    This site says "kung fu" was entered into the english language in 1966.

    http://www.bl.uk/learning/langlit/ch...loanwords.html

    Ergo anything that was done before that point may have been called boxing or "chinese boxing" yes but was more than likely just a shitty kung fu point-fighting session with random nobodies.
    not exactly. 1966 just marks the earliest identified English print usage found by the Oxford English Dictionary; that doesn't mean the term itself "entered" the language at that time. it's quite likely (almost certain, in fact) that the term crossed over well before that.
  7. shironinja is offline
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    shadow weight

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    Posted On:
    3/26/2008 10:30am

    supporting member
     Style: yes

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So what you are saying is that they didn't write about it in any records.

    Including boxing records until that time.
    Now or never.
  8. sempaiman is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    3/26/2008 11:47am


     Style: Mixed-Up Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Elemental Fist
    Talentless? He was in the movie business in Hong Kong since childhood (his father was a well known actor over there) and watch his guest starring appearances in TV shows like Longstreet and tell me he's talentless. And I believe a bunching bag is stronger than a paper bag and his kicks were quite strong while kicking the bag.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tG6-6lhcUH4

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=[yt]_GDWkVRK8kQ

    ...How did the blind guy that Bruce was teaching in the video clips do in his fight on the docks....
  9. G8 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/26/2008 12:03pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by shironinja
    So what you are saying is that they didn't write about it in any records.

    Including boxing records until that time.
    no, just that that's the earliest printed example the OED staff has found. they don't read everything ever printed, obviously, and most of the likely "first use" sources (specialty magazines & small-time newspapers, etc.) don't tend to survive very long. the first use of "kung fu" they cite is from "Punch" magazine, which despite its name wasn't a boxing periodical but a British literary/humor magazine. it's likely that "kung fu" was in oral use in English long before, and it probably appeared many times in print before it found its way into a periodical popular & mainstream enough for the OED readers to turn up. if you find an earlier surviving example of its use, send it to them & they'll update their records; that's how lexicography & etymology progress.
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