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  1. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 11:17pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cracky
    Dude, if you're using a "dead arm swing" to knock people over, then as soon as you hit someone with solid base and any sort of defensive posture, one of two things will happen:

    1) Absolutely nothing

    OR

    2) Your arm hyperextends at the elbow
    You're talking about some sort of clothesline, right? Yes, I agree; if you swung an extended arm at at unyielding target, striking with your fist or lower forearm, you'd probably hurt yourself.

    Did you bother to actually watch the video clip? I ask because it's patently obvious that the demonstrator is hitting hard without damaging his own arm, and really, it's pretty obvious how he's doing it.

    I already explained why the other guy falls down, and it has less to do with sheer impact momentum, although that is considerable, and more to do with the fact that these strikes hurt like hell. Your diaphragm muscles cramp up and you fold.

    I get the feeling that people are reacting more to the hokey presentation of these Riazanov promotional clips than to what he's actually doing in them. For all I know, Riazanov is a complete asshole, but there's really nothing mysterious, mystical or whatever about the way he's punching.
  2. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Shime Waza Test Dummy

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 11:29pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by SFGOON
    Any Soviet trained boxer (or any eastern-bloc athlete, for that matter) uses similliar techniques, they just have different names for it.

    Val what's his face, the guy in the OP's video, is a proven liar and systema villiage idiot. Do not listen to him.
    A "proven liar and systema village idiot"??? What a qualification... :icon_thum
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  3. Frenzal is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2008 12:27am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    DdlR, is that diaphragm cramp you're talking about otherwsie known as being winded?

    If so, why does the guy in blue sort of shuffle back and do a playful little fall then bounce up again?

    As a follow up question; why doesn't he double over and take a knee on the spot, then roll onto his back and desperately try to breathe again? Cos that's what usually happens to me.
  4. Jim_Jude is offline
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    Shime Waza Test Dummy

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2008 12:52am

    Join us... or die
     Style: StrikeyGrappling & WW2-fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Frenzal
    DdlR, is that diaphragm cramp you're talking about otherwsie known as being winded?

    If so, why does the guy in blue sort of shuffle back and do a playful little fall then bounce up again?

    As a follow up question; why doesn't he double over and take a knee on the spot, then roll onto his back and desperately try to breathe again? Cos that's what usually happens to me.
    'cause it's BULLSHIT. :icon_lol:
    "Judo is a study of techniques with which you may kill if you wish to kill, injure if you wish to injure, subdue if you wish to subdue, and, when attacked, defend yourself" - Jigoro Kano (1889)
    ***Was this quote "taken out of context"?***

    "The judoist has no time to allow himself a margin for error, especially in a situation upon which his or another person's very life depends...."
    ~ The Secret of Judo (Jiichi Watanabe & Lindy Avakian), p.19

    "Hope is not a method... nor is enthusiasm."
    ~ Brigadier General Gordon Toney
  5. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/20/2008 1:10am

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     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What happens when you're winded depends on all sorts of factors; how hard and at what angle you were hit, the muscles most directly affected by the cramp, your own body's momentum and direction of movement just before and during the strike, your psychology and motivation, etc. It's safe to say that, for example, a boxer who goes down due to a "solar plexus" shot and stays down for the count simply can't stand up again.

    If you're suggesting that the "fall guy" in the clip is exaggerating the effects of the punches for dramatic effect, then shrug; I've seen people hit hard enough to get winded react in all sorts of ways, including leaning forward with their hands on their knees for support, staggering backwards, doubled over and vomiting, rolled up on the floor in a fetal position and so-on. Again, it largely depends on where and how hard they get hit.

    Again, there's really nothing very mysterious about this demonstration. A solid shot to the right spot hurts a lot.
    Last edited by DdlR; 3/20/2008 2:35am at .
  6. D Dempsey is offline
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    Monkey Knife Fight!

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2008 2:35am

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     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A big issue that never really gets explained is the purpose of striking in RMA. The idea was never really to knock the other person out or even to really hit hard, the purpose is to move the other person, off-balance them, and take them down. If you look and the Kadochnikov material you don't really see a lot of emphasis placed on striking, as it's only really used to facilitate a takedown.
  7. D Dempsey is offline
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    Monkey Knife Fight!

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2008 2:37am

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     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude
    A "proven liar and systema village idiot"??? What a qualification... :icon_thum
    What did he do to be deserving of this impressive title? I personally thought his background seemed a little suspect but I never really looked into it.
  8. Roidie McDouchebag is offline
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    Injury Waiting To Happen

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2008 2:53am

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     Style: Snatch Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    although that is considerable, and more to do with the fact that these strikes hurt like hell.
    That's why I included the "absolutely nothing" possibility.
  9. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/20/2008 3:16am

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     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I may have been giving you too much credit ...

    I didn't bother to repeat my explanation about the effects of the diaphragmatic spasm on balance because I naively assumed that you'd read and understood it. I'll type slowly ...

    Sucker punched hard in gut. Not just pain. Muscles cramp up. Can't stand, even if you are Cracky. Fall down. Poor Cracky.
  10. Telum is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2008 3:27am


     Style: Karate, Krav Maga, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR
    Not just pain. Muscles cramp up. Can't stand, even if you are Cracky. Fall down. Poor Cracky.
    So what you are saying is that the systema master uses his chi to interfere with your nerves?
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