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  1. WhiteShark is offline
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    1% Shark is better than you.

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    Posted On:
    8/20/2010 1:01pm

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     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The problem most people have is that when a Crossfit trainer asks you to clean 135 pounds as part of a timed clean/plyometric challenge they take time to teach you how to properly do a clean first. Systema seems to skip this part based on what we usually see.
  2. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/20/2010 1:22pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark View Post
    The problem most people have is that when a Crossfit trainer asks you to clean 135 pounds as part of a timed clean/plyometric challenge they take time to teach you how to properly do a clean first. Systema seems to skip this part based on what we usually see.
    You're usually seeing clips uploaded to YouTube, which seldom take the time to explain the context or even the purpose of the various drills. Still, I'd say that you're partly right, acknowledging that much depends on how individual instructors teach newbies. Some do offer the type of detailed basic technical instruction you're looking for, others IMO get all Russian about it and figure "they'll get it one day".

    This also comes back to my earlier point about Systema originally being intended as a skills extension/"fight outside the box" training program for experienced fighters. Personally, I think that the System would benefit from developing a more structured approach to training novices; again, I don't generally recommend it to noobs, especially not to people who are looking for a relatively quick "self defense fix".
  3. Sri Hanuman is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/20/2010 1:39pm

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     Style: Cheng Man Ching Taijiquan

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    I am curious. Initially (at least mid 2003-2005) I was under the impression that their official stance was that prior martial arts experience would be a detriment to learning Systema efficiently? Or is this something I am mistaken about?
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  4. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/20/2010 1:50pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sri Hanuman View Post
    I am curious. Initially (at least mid 2003-2005) I was under the impression that their official stance was that prior martial arts experience would be a detriment to learning Systema efficiently? Or is this something I am mistaken about?
    I didn't know there was ever an official stance on that subject; can you dig up any cites?

    Again, the concept of Systema as a sort of post-grad program is my own theory, based on what I've gleaned about its history and my observations of how it's being taught today. AFAIK the "official" history is still a bunch of vague references to ancient Cossack knights and Russian Orthodox monasteries, which is (IMO) much less interesting than the actual history.
  5. Sri Hanuman is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/20/2010 2:03pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR View Post
    I didn't know there was ever an official stance on that subject; can you dig up any cites?

    Again, the concept of Systema as a sort of post-grad program is my own theory, based on what I've gleaned about its history and my observations of how it's being taught today. AFAIK the "official" history is still a bunch of vague references to ancient Cossack knights and Russian Orthodox monasteries, which is (IMO) much less interesting than the actual history.
    I have heard this from an old friend who was starting Systema, back around 2005 (he's the one who introduced me to Systema, and got me a few of Vasiliev's DVDs,) but that's merely second hand info, and doesn't count for much. I haven't been able to find anything related to this online.
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  6. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/20/2010 2:21pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sri Hanuman View Post
    I have heard this from an old friend who was starting Systema, back around 2005 (he's the one who introduced me to Systema, and got me a few of Vasiliev's DVDs,) but that's merely second hand info, and doesn't count for much. I haven't been able to find anything related to this online.
    Well, returning to the basic question, I could argue it either way. An experienced boxer, for example, coming in to a Systema class would probably already be advanced in terms of hand-eye co-ordination, conditioning, reflex speed, etc. Their major challenges might involve things outside their comfort zone, like drills in which you're lying on the ground and trying to avoid 4 people stepping on your face, or trying to "shed" a blunt knife being pressed into your chest while your back is to the wall.

    In general, an experienced fighter in style X will have big advantages in those drills that are more-or-less directly related to their prior experience, but may struggle with others that challenge them in completely novel ways. Worst-case would be that the "challenge" of a particular drill runs counter to their long-conditioned reflexes (good ol' cognitive dissonance). IMO the ideal "new Systema student" is someone with considerable experience in a range of styles, who has already internalized the cross-over points between them and is looking for a way to stretch his wings and experiment.
  7. Sri Hanuman is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/20/2010 2:29pm

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     Style: Cheng Man Ching Taijiquan

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    Gotcha.
    =================
    Kama Sutra blue belt.

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