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  1. SWEHurricane is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 7:23am


     Style: Taijutsu, boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think that has alot of uses. You can punch pretty hard without any hip rotation, but that always has certain downsides. I have seen some bad systema, but this dosen't look bad to me.
  2. Kambei Shimada is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 7:44am


     Style: Sub-Grap/MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Problem (well one of ) with arts like Systema is that the few techniques they have that actually work get shrouded in bullshit mysticism.

    There's nothing Unique about being relaxed while striking.
  3. illegalusername is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 7:58am


     Style: MMA + Harmonica

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I love how the guy in the Youtube comments goes "This is a secret Tai Chi technique"
  4. Osuofia is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 8:03am


     Style: Bullshido

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by illegalusername
    I love how the guy in the Youtube comments goes "This is a secret Tai Chi technique"
    The youtube comments on systema are funny as hell quite often, one guy about Mikhail Ryabko's no touch fighting:
    This is part and parcel of Ilmu Batin. Ilmu Batin is an indonesian malay word. An unseen force used by the traditional underground Silat fighters. Trained in forests, caves or natural surroundings, it's a lethal force that can leave an opponent dead without even any contact. In short, it's a link between black & white magic. However, ilmu batin is banned in all mainstream silat competitions due to its lethal reasons. Google it to get more information on this unseen art.
    Video is labeled " Systema Art - Silat from Russia" btw... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hO8yvA3cSE
  5. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 8:13am

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kambei Shimada
    The Problem (well one of ) with arts like Systema is that the few techniques they have that actually work get shrouded in bullshit mysticism.

    There's nothing Unique about being relaxed while striking.
    Ah, where to start ...

    1 - Systema is an open-ended set of movement and sparring drills based on a set of 4 basic principles. It isn't taught as a set of techniques.

    2 - There's nothing mystical about it. I've taken Systema classes with instructors in Australia, New Zealand, the UK and the USA and none of them taught anything mystical. If you don't understand what you're watching then it can seem mysterious, but that isn't the same thing.

    3 - The video producer who introduced this clip specifically said, "this is just common sense and basic physics". No claims of uniqueness. In fact, the same skill is commonly taught in Chinese internal martial arts; typically, though not always, with a healthy dose of "mysticism" as in reference to chi, meridians, etc. In Systema it's typically explained in physical and biomechanical terms.
  6. Vieux Normand is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 8:29am

    Join us... or die
     Style: 血鷲

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Okay, possible explanation (guess) here from a PE grad, but that was years ago, so my info may be obsolete:

    Usually, muscular action is performed by the muscle involved contracting (of course, like pecs and triceps contracting in the benchpress), but--and some people don't know this--the opposing muscle will simultaneously maintain a certain tone and contract eccentrically, acting as a brake to prevent hyperextension (in the benchpress, the biceps and brachialis do this as a reflex to protect the elbow from hypering).

    If you can sufficiently relax so that you stifle the reflexive braking action of the opposing muscle, then the only muscles being used are the contractors (the power-generators) and one might be able to generate a surprising amount of power because the opposing muscle isn't slowing things down. The guy doing the more standard punches seems pretty tensed up, and might be wasting a lot of his power trying to overcome the braking effect of his own opposing muscles (probably the biceps, brachialis and lats in his case). If true, this relaxed-striking might also have benefits re: gassing-out, as you're not using as much energy overcoming your own musculoskeletal protective reflexes.

    Be a bitch if--after all that--you ended up hypering some joint or other, though.
    Last edited by Vieux Normand; 3/19/2008 8:31am at .
  7. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 8:34am

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, that's exactly it.

    Incidentally, no-one in their right mind would deny that you can also generate serious power using the more orthodox dynamic, which relies on skeletal alignment and body weight driven by muscular exertion, it's just that it does typically require more of a wind-up and does take more energy.
  8. Vorpal is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 8:49am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    DdR, are you going to tell me that the non-touch jedi mind trick crap in the second video is real? That's exactly what I mean by Stockholm Syndrome. You will never see a "demo" like that done with someone off the street or even a new practioner. It's always done with someone who has an investment of some sort in the system.
  9. Kambei Shimada is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 8:59am


     Style: Sub-Grap/MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR
    Ah, where to start ...

    1 - Systema is an open-ended set of movement and sparring drills based on a set of 4 basic principles. It isn't taught as a set of techniques.

    2 - There's nothing mystical about it. I've taken Systema classes with instructors in Australia, New Zealand, the UK and the USA and none of them taught anything mystical. If you don't understand what you're watching then it can seem mysterious, but that isn't the same thing.

    3 - The video producer who introduced this clip specifically said, "this is just common sense and basic physics". No claims of uniqueness. In fact, the same skill is commonly taught in Chinese internal martial arts; typically, though not always, with a healthy dose of "mysticism" as in reference to chi, meridians, etc. In Systema it's typically explained in physical and biomechanical terms.
    1.You Know what else makes EXACTLY the same claim: Wing Tsun.

    2.Well to be fair there's a Hell of alot of Systema information out there claiming otherwise.
    Hence all the One touch Knock Out type bullshit:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJDnMDJVWmQ

    3. I'd like to see some of the 'physics' that back this method of striking over say standard boxing mechanics.
    Last edited by Kambei Shimada; 3/19/2008 9:02am at .
  10. nightowl is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 9:26am


     Style: Koryu Budo, Shooto

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kambei Shimada
    3. I'd like to see some of the 'physics' that back this method of striking over say standard boxing mechanics.
    Fat people can put more weight behind their punch.
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