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  1. Hex is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 9:44am


     Style: Hapkido, Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ZenOfAnger
    I'd like to see more small-joint manipulation in these HKD sport fights, because isn't that the thing that really separates HKD from other martial arts? It's good to see HKD go in this direction, but to my knowledge, HKD emphasizes on small joint-locks right? I'm not saying the cross-training is bad, it's a great thing to do, but it doesn't look like they are doing much HKD moves in these fights, but more on the line of BJJ/Judo.

    I am also a judo rookie. I should be ready to test for my yellow in early April
    HKD does have A LOT of wrist locks.

    Whether these can or should be used in sport has been debated before. Personally, I think the fact that most fighters wear gloves kind of negates the issue anyway. Even with the smaller MMA gloves (not to mention the tape underneath the gloves and around the wrist) landing a wrist lock would be extremely difficult.

    As for as those videos go, I agree that there isn't a whole lot distinguishing that style of fighting from your average MMA bout (other than the doboks). Personally, I like the Pro Hapkido ruleset which allows limited groundwork. I think it fits better with the general philosophy in HKD to avoid the ground, or at the very least, limit one's time on the ground if you end up there.
  2. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 10:09am

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Small joints as in finger manipulation: No
    Small Joints as wrist locks: I believe those are allowed except you're wearing gloves.
  3. biomed190 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 12:14pm


     Style: JKD BJJ JUDO MUY THAI

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When I lived in Texas we used to compete in something like this with other schools in the town I lived in. Judo Bjj TKD and a few other styles competed in it.
  4. ZenOfAnger is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/19/2008 11:28pm


     Style: Judo+soon 2b bjj,boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok. Thanks for pointing out the difficulty of executing wrist-locks with the sparring gloves. I didn't think about the gloves affecting the technique. My bad.

    But it still looks more like BJJ/Judo to me.
    I hope more can be done to the rule set to make the sport HKD stand out from other styles.

    Besides, I think HKD is going in the right direction from the looks of these videos, but I feel that more can (and will) be done to improve it.
  5. DngrRuss1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2008 2:17am


     Style: HKD, TKD, Crappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega the Merciless
    Small joints as in finger manipulation: No
    Small Joints as wrist locks: I believe those are allowed except you're wearing gloves.
    If you're talking about the Pro-HKD, then you are right. While wrist locks are allowed, gloves (5.5 oz. minimum) make it very difficult.

    Pro HKD at my school at the end of April. I will try to get some vid to put up here afterward.
  6. BLACCBILLYJACC is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/08/2008 12:31pm


     Style: Hapkido, MT, Wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    {QUOTE}

    But it still looks more like BJJ/Judo to me.
    I hope more can be done to the rule set to make the sport HKD stand out from other styles.

    Judo, BJJ, Sambo, Wrestleing, Pankration,Etc; It's pretty much all gonna look & be the same especially with gloves on. I believe that in HKD competitions there needs to be more Black Belts with atleast 2-5 years at Black Belt (IMHO) which should be in the 5 to 10 year range since the start of HKD training. If their system isn't teaching enough ground work then they'll need to supplement it with wrestleing, judo, sambo, etc; which I feel quite a few guys are doing and some may have previously trained in another system or have no martial arts training at all and now they 9 months to 2 yrs. (not every one) in HKD with some ground work with various levels of time put in.

    So when you see it in some competitions this is what it'll probably continue to look like cause in essence it's what everybody else is doing no matter what the style cause it's a stand up style with some cross training in a ground art or guys with training in a ground art with some limited training in a stand up art, i.e. Muay thai, TKD, Kenpo,HKD, etc; and it brings the same results! Some kicking, a few strikes, & then the ever famous clinch then the take down/both falling on the floor and each trying to fight for position and makeing the other the other submit, i.e. the Tap or Choke.

    Without the uniforms who out there can tell the difference of any style especially when it goes to the ground? Can anyone really look at it right off the bat & say "Hey, those are judo moves or that's sambo techniques? etc;
    I believe that no matter what the extent of training in a full ground art, that's what guys are gonna resort to in a sport fight setting that allows ground fighting hence every so often you'll see a high round house to the head or ribs, or a side kick to the solaplex, etc; take someone out. Outside of that they'll just be shin kicks to the thighs or a few jabs to the head, body,(maybe) and it's still gonna end up being the same in some way.

    My honest opinion (or theory) is if guys have at least 5 years or more in HKD then you'll see more of what makes HKD...HKD and that's the joint locks of the wrist (They'll have to practice them against resistance with gloves on...A LOT!) sweeps, throws, etc;

    Just my opinion from what I've seen. My instructor Mike Lee won it 2 yrs in a row (Pro-HKD) He had about 15 years (Atleast) in HKD at the time & had some BJJ training under his belt so his kicks, sweeps, throws & his all around form & posture was pure HKD when watching him from the starting position. On the ground it could've been anything. I'll post a video up as soon as I can.

    Any disagreements?:glasses7:
    Last edited by BLACCBILLYJACC; 5/08/2008 12:35pm at .
  7. DerAuslander is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/08/2008 1:06pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes...
  8. Hex is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/08/2008 4:38pm


     Style: Hapkido, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Obviously, HKD is a stand-up fighting style. At its best, it should be trained as a complete stand-up style with a full range of strikes, locks, throws, chokes, and carrying techniques.

    There's no need to apologize for not incorporating groundfighting. I get a little miffed when HKD schools claim to teach groundfighting. They very well may do so, but they shouldn't call that aspect of it Hapkido. Call it Judo, Wrestling, or BJJ - whatever it is. And if the instructor has no training in any of those styles, then he probably shouldn't be teaching it in the first place. (Just generalizing here, of course.)

    Once again, I think the Pro-HKD ruleset, with its limited groundwork, is much closer an approximation of the type of fighting Hapkidoists train for.
  9. Jsin2181 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/09/2008 7:44am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey Hex, you seem to have your head screwed on pretty good about HKD. I'm just starting out in it. What am i looking for in a good teacher of HKD? I mean he goes through the striking, self defense, take downs and throws. He teaches how to fall and roll, how to get thrown when being the "attacker". Everytime i have a question he answers it for me. I feel i get along very well with him and the class. But I also recognize I'm not really quallified to say he's a good teacher or not.
  10. Hex is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/09/2008 9:11am


     Style: Hapkido, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jsin2181
    Hey Hex, you seem to have your head screwed on pretty good about HKD. I'm just starting out in it. What am i looking for in a good teacher of HKD? I mean he goes through the striking, self defense, take downs and throws. He teaches how to fall and roll, how to get thrown when being the "attacker". Everytime i have a question he answers it for me. I feel i get along very well with him and the class. But I also recognize I'm not really quallified to say he's a good teacher or not.
    Like any martial art, it's all about the training. Do you spar at your school? Do you practice the self-defense techniques with resistance or with a completely compliant partner? If you're brand new, you might not be doing either of these things yet. However, if the black belts in your class are still doing static wrist grabs with no resistance and no sparring, then it could mean trouble.

    Is this a HKD-only school, or a TKD/HKD mix?
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