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  1. Incorrigible 1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/12/2008 3:21pm


     Style: Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Instructor Liability.

    I was doing a search on liability and martial arts and found a couple of situations that raised an eyebrow.

    What are your thoughts on the following situations? What do you think the outcome would be in each situation should someone try to sue an instructor?

    1st Situation - from Aikiweb: Legal Case - Test your knowledge

    You grade a student to second degree on your responsibility as a {M.A. Instructor}. The student starts their own dojo in another city. After the grading, your student goes and teaches a variant of {a technique} which could be a little dangerous for anyone who does not know know {how to fall/protect themselves}. Your student learned this technique at a seminar you gave and you even allowed this student to use it during his/her grading.

    The student, now teacher, did show the {technique variant} to his/her students back home and they learned to do it quite well and it was safely practiced in his/her dojo for some time.

    A couple years later, your student is teaching class and shows this {technique variant} during class since it has become one of the dojo's favourite techniques. A beginner student is in the class and is working with the instructor, your student. Now, if the technique is practiced correctly, the result is generally safe during a training/practice situation for anyone. However, the beginner resisted strongly, in this case, against the technique and when the instructor, your student, overcame the resistance the beginner falls and lands on the back of his head. With a loud snap, the neck is fractured. The beginner student ends up with a fractured spine that leads to bipedal paralysis, loss of job, and possibly even loss of family due to divorce caused by stress on the wife and kids.

    A lawsuit is brought forward by the beginner. It has named you as one of the defendants. While your student probably did learn the {technique variant} from you at that seminar years ago, you are not the only one who shows this {technique variant}. It is a standard technique within your Ryu.

    These are the facts of the case. The question is, do you have any exposure in this lawsuit? If you do have exposure, what do you think may be the possible level of exposure?
    2nd Situation - from Yahoo Answers! Martial Arts Question on Liability

    If one of your students uses what they have been taught by you, in anything other than self defense, can you be sued because you taught them?
    Last edited by Incorrigible 1; 3/12/2008 8:23pm at . Reason: Fixing a grammar error. Shortened Title.
  2. Lug is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/13/2008 12:15am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    While I'm not sure what the legal outcome would be in these situations, my personal opinion is that the second the student leaves the gym\dojo\supervision of the instructor, the instructor is no longer responsible for what the student does.

    In the first example I wouldn't say the technique is to blame for what happened, it was the instructor. Knowing that it was a dangerous technique if not done cleanly, he should have stopped when the new student put up decent resistance. Instead he went full power just to demonstrate it worked and caused irreparable harm for no good reason.

    You were not present, nor did you encourage your student to go out, become and instructor and break some necks. It's like if person A shoots person B, then person B attempts to sue person A's father because he taught him how to use a gun when person A was younger.

    I like to think that in neither situation the instructor is liable, but knowing what a litigatious society we live in and that the standard of proof is much weaker in a civil trial it wouldn't surprise me if somehow the instructor was found partially liable.
  3. EternalRage is offline
    EternalRage's Avatar

    WARNING: BJJ may cause airway obstruction.

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    Posted On:
    3/13/2008 6:43am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bajillion Joo Jizzu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Usually there are waivers for students and also insurance for instructors/school owners. But given enough money for a hotshot lawyer coupled with the fact that negligence in martial arts instruction is probably not a widely explored topic of law, I'm guessing it's a toss up.
  4. webprofessor is offline

    I am a moocher who cheats Bullshido out of much needed funds.

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    Posted On:
    3/13/2008 8:04am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: crappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Unless someone on here is a lawyer you may as well be talking to the wall. Law is complex and requires specialized training and knowledge. This is the equivalent of asking on a law forum what the finer points of X Guard are.

    Get a lawyer... they generally will answer this sort of thing for free if its just a few minutes.
  5. FickleFingerOfFate is offline
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    Guess which finger is the fickle one...

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    Posted On:
    3/13/2008 8:10am

    supporting member
     Style: Karate/ Arnis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by webprofessor
    Unless someone on here is a lawyer you may as well be talking to the wall. Law is complex and requires specialized training and knowledge. This is the equivalent of asking on a law forum what the finer points of X Guard are.

    Get a lawyer... they generally will answer this sort of thing for free if its just a few minutes.


    Gosh.


    It's a good thing there are a couple on Staff then, Huh.


    :5oh:


    :5bye:
    If you can't laugh at yourself,
    Others will be happy to do it for you. :evil6:

    The 2 most abundant elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.


  6. webprofessor is offline

    I am a moocher who cheats Bullshido out of much needed funds.

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    Posted On:
    3/13/2008 8:25am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: crappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Gosh its senseless excercise to post this to the general public to get random responses from retards who don't know **** about the law.... when you could contact a lawyer directly.

    Apparently via PM in this case....
  7. FickleFingerOfFate is offline
    FickleFingerOfFate's Avatar

    Guess which finger is the fickle one...

    Join Date
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    Up in your grill.
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2008 8:50am

    supporting member
     Style: Karate/ Arnis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by webprofessor
    Gosh its senseless excercise to post this to the general public to get random responses from retards who don't know **** about the law.... when you could contact a lawyer directly.

    Apparently via PM in this case....

    Go ahead and tell us what you think anyway,


    we'll just overlook the obvious ignorance.
    If you can't laugh at yourself,
    Others will be happy to do it for you. :evil6:

    The 2 most abundant elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.


  8. webprofessor is offline

    I am a moocher who cheats Bullshido out of much needed funds.

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    Posted On:
    3/13/2008 9:01am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: crappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ok you win.
  9. Vorpal is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    3/13/2008 9:06am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The outcome? About + 5G for every lawyer involved.
  10. Ming Loyalist is offline
    Ming Loyalist's Avatar

    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    3/13/2008 9:46am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by webprofessor
    they generally will answer this sort of thing for free if its just a few minutes.
    not in new york, they won't.

    maybe if you live in candyland they work for free. around these parts they charge a minimum fee no matter how quick your question is (usually an hour's fee minimum.)
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
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