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  1. heitschj is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/13/2008 12:21pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: muay thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Emevas when I said skip the bench I ment I don't include it.
  2. KayRoc is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/13/2008 12:23pm


     Style: Crappling (BJJ Hiatus)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by heitschj
    I feel that if i end up in a postion with my arms colapsed and elbows benid my chest i already lost.
    I like this guys style.
  3. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2008 12:35pm

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by heitschj
    Emevas when I said skip the bench I ment I don't include it.
    Don't say 'skip' then. Use 'exclude' or 'don't include' instead. You can't skip something you do not include.

    People are going to reply to you based on what you are literally telling them. If you want them to understand what you are saying, then please give your potential readers the courtesy of explaining yourself correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by heitschj
    I feel that if i end up in a postion with my arms colapsed and elbows benid my chest i already lost.
    Lost? A rep isn't a competition. An articulation needs to be trained through its entire range of motion. This includes the bottom part, plus it teaches how to maximize the use of the stretch reflex. Sorry bro, but this statement does not make any sense at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by heitschj
    If the distance is alredy closed I'm more than likely not going to press them off.
    Which indicates your shoulder articulation and your triceps are weak at that angle. At this point, the correct option is to drop the weight until you can manage to generate strenght and power from that position.

    Avoiding that position because you can't lift off and instead opting for a different angle that lets you claim a heavier lift is no different from the gym fags that avoid squatting below parallel and squat just 1/3 of the lift because that's the only way for them to load the bar with 300+lbs (ego stroking.)

    What are you going to do in real life when the shoulder articulation is fully abducted? You have a previous post saying you are doing BJJ. Surely you have found yourself with your shoulders in such a situation.

    You don't develop strenght by avoiding a weak range of motion. It doesn't work that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by heitschj
    Inclines IN my opinion are the far superior lift providing moer strength.
    And your opinion is based on? This runs completely against every other powerlifting/strenght training school of thought that we know of.

    Quote Originally Posted by heitschj
    If you are worried about shoulder stabiliztion then increas your shoulder strength.
    No way. Really? I would have never known. Silly me for not seeing this obvious truth.

    Could you please elucidate me on how I should go about increasing my shoulder strenght?
    Last edited by Teh El Macho; 3/13/2008 12:42pm at .
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  4. PirateJon is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/13/2008 3:50pm

    supporting member
     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by heitschj
    I use push jerks and push press as a change up. I find that I get better results as a high rep version of push press say 5x15,as a opposed to the rep scheme i use for snatch and cleans nothing higher than 6. I also land in the full squat catch of both. I find that the power versions limit the stretch reflex that you are tring to create by doing these lifts. I posted to just to see if anyone has found them to be benificial for MA or should i just stick to my oly lfiting sechdule. I hope I was clearer on this post for you.
    Personally I don't want a strech reflex when I do power cleans since I'm not trying to lift more, I'm trying to get more explosive (ie recruit as many muscle fibers in as short a time as possible).

    I feel that if i end up in a postion with my arms colapsed and elbows benid my chest i already lost. If the distance is alredy closed I'm more than likely not going to press them off. Inclines IN my opinion are the far superior lift providing moer strength. If you are worried about shoulder stabiliztion then increas your shoulder strength.
    I think you can lift more, but that doesn't mean they're making your shoulders stronger than say weighted chins or presses.
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
  5. PirateJon is offline
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    and good morning to you too

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    Posted On:
    3/13/2008 3:52pm

    supporting member
     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And Macho - that fuckin bloodsport gif is 10 kinds of AWESOME. lolz.
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
  6. Emevas is offline
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    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    3/13/2008 8:22pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I still don't quite see how you can skip the bench if it's not included in your routine. Well, I guess I should say I don't see a reason why one would say "I skip the bench", and only the bench. There are thousands of exercises out there that one could "skip", that to just list one seems...well...bizare to me personally.

    But in either case, the bench can have applicability, even in olympic lifting. From what I know, it was originally a lift designed as a supplemental movement in olympic lifting to improve one's jerk/press, as one was able to handle heavier weights at this angle and really recuit the shoulders and triceps into it. Keeping good powerlifting form should help in the development of shoulders and triceps.

    And there's nothing wrong with getting a good stretch reflex in on your lifting. It can help you lift/handle more weight. You can alternate between dead stop and stretch reflex to work on both.


    For some reason, there's a culture of exclusionism in current lifting, with a lot of people casting out potentially useful and helpful exercises for either the reason of ego or poor education. Louie Simmons said something to the effect of "there are no bad exercises, just poor applications".
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  7. heitschj is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2008 9:53am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: muay thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I see I'm dealing with some real experts in this are so i better stick to myself. I'm soory that I can't explian things clearly enough for el macho. If you want ot get your shoulsder sstronger is bench going to help? it hits one delt. what do you do for your sides and rears. you probably so a ton of raises adding on an extra twenty to thirty minutes to your workout.

    to emvas
    I can lift more with a power clean than i can in the full squat catch, i don't see how you can say that a power movemnet builds more explosion than working on the stretch reflex. I don't think you can have one with out the other. If you could all your cleans would be muscle cleans. you get a stretch reflex in your low back and hamstrings to start the pull fromt he floor.
  8. heitschj is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2008 9:54am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: muay thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    soory emvas i meant pirate jon
  9. heitschj is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/17/2008 9:57am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: muay thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Emvas you quote louie simmons and to that affect how do feel about the fact louie excludes the basic back squat and bench press. he saves those lifts only for competiion.
  10. Teh El Macho is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/17/2008 10:00am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by heitschj
    Emvas you quote louie simmons and to that affect how do feel about the fact louie excludes the basic back squat and bench press. he saves those lifts only for competiion.
    Not true.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
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