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  1. Ke?poFist is offline
    Ke?poFist's Avatar

    Enforcer of Northeast Anti-Silliness Department Inc.

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    Posted On:
    9/04/2008 10:00am

    supporting member
     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by chrischance
    14 years ago I had the great fortune to stay with Gary Forbachs in San Clemente.
    His classes were hard, fast and effective. At that time he had many students from the nearby Marine Corps base who were fit and hard. Dojo etiquette was strict and the training was excellent. The system is admirable but like all systems, its effectiveness lies with the sensei.
    Cool stuff.
    Knowing is not enough, you must apply...
    ...Willing is not enough you must do
    ~Bruce Lee

  2. Bishop is offline
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    Posted On:
    9/04/2008 4:23pm


     Style: Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by chrischance
    14 years ago I had the great fortune to stay with Gary Forbachs in San Clemente.
    His classes were hard, fast and effective. At that time he had many students from the nearby Marine Corps base who were fit and hard. Dojo etiquette was strict and the training was excellent. The system is admirable but like all systems, its effectiveness lies with the sensei.
    That basically sums it up. I went thru a lot of instructors/coaches (judo, wrestling, aikido, shotokan, Kajukenbo) before I started training with Gary Forbach in 1991. Good "old school" Kajukenbo, taught in his garage. Black belts from other systems, Marines, cops, everyday students trained there. Martial artists came from England, Germany, Spain, and across the country to train in the garage. They just brought sleeping bags, and slept on the mats. Spend the day at the beach, work out in the evening, and have a beer at the pier at night.
    To a MUCH lesser degree Kajukenbo suffers some of the same quality control problems that many systems do. Some commercial schools are just day care centers, or have to soften their training to keep students. And then there are the unethical instructors who cross rank people they never trained, just to pad their resume or make a buck. You go to Hawaii, California, Texas, Illinois, Ohio, Missiouri, Germany, Spain, etc., it's going to be pretty easy to find some hardcore "old school" Kajukenbo instructors.
    You go to the east coast (U.S.) and you gotta look pretty hard to find a small handfull of old school Kajukenbo instructors. In fact you can count them on one hand and have a finger or two left.
    "Old school" Kajukenbo includes training in defensive techniques against punches, kicks, knives, clubs, multiple attackers. Heavy contact, no contracts, no whining. Hard contact sparring at all ranges. You go down, nobody breaks it up. You either get stomped, or take the fight to the ground, and continue.


    Chris, were you one of the guys that came from England with Peter Brown?
    Last edited by Bishop; 9/04/2008 4:28pm at .
  3. Dmachine is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/09/2008 8:35am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: kempo/jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think the concept of Kajukenbo is by far the best all around martial art as the acronym in the name suggests. But, as has been stated on this web site that I have trolled for quit some time there are a handful of very bad practitioners. Just check out some you tube clips, its painful to watch. Though my dojo is a shaolin affiliate we abandoned that system years ago for more realistic training and fighting more reminiscent of the traditional Kajukenbo of which I feel is more hard core in the tradition of the founders of the original system years ago. If its hard, painful and sucks then its probably a good Dojo in the tradition of Kajukenbo.
  4. armbreaker is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2008 9:13pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: jujitsu, silat, kali, jkd

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Kajukenbo

    Kajukenbo is a damn good system. The thing to remember is that it always matters on what school you join. That school on the Fight Quest episode seemed like a real fighting school. The students looked like a serious group of street brawlers. Kajukenbo is a serious streetfighting art. Adrian Emperado was one bad ass teacher, he was for real. If you look on the net you will see some schools that don't look nearly as intense, which means they strayed away from the real meaning and reason for Kajukenbo. Some teachers want alot of money, so they are not so ruff on their students so they don't quit. If you are at a real Kaju school, you won't be dissapointed. Just be ready to get beat up.
  5. mike321 is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/11/2008 11:45pm


     Style: kenpo, Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dmachine
    I think the concept of Kajukenbo is by far the best all around martial art as the acronym in the name suggests. .
    Please follow up on this thought. A few questions to challenge/focus/expand your thoughts:

    Why kajukenbo vs taking the individual arts?

    How does kajukenbo blend technique from different arts?

    Is being good all around better than specializing?

    How good are the techniques taught at a kaju class compared to the training at one of the root schools?
  6. Ke?poFist is offline
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    Enforcer of Northeast Anti-Silliness Department Inc.

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2008 12:49pm

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     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mike321
    Please follow up on this thought. A few questions to challenge/focus/expand your thoughts:
    Well the question wasn't directed at me, but I want drop my 2 anyway

    Why kajukenbo vs taking the individual arts?
    Depends your purpose and focus for training. Self Defense? MMA? Exercise? Masochism? I would say that by training in an art like Kajukenbo - with an instructor who may not be a whiz in any one area, but proficient at showing you how to effectively fight all around with the goal of defending yourself always in mind - to be more appealing to some people, than to train in 5+ arts and try to differentiate and piece together what works for their goals on their own.

    How does kajukenbo blend technique from different arts?
    Well this question here strikes to the core of this very discussion. Some people claim to be Kaju or Kaju Affiliates or Kaju "Ohana" or tie themselves to the name somehow, but all they really do is the same old bad Ke?po with a clover patch on their gi. Others however, take the parts of the combative arts that the art is derived from, that suit most well for their goal (quick and efficient street fighting/self defense) and go from there. As an example, they're not going to train or show Judo throws where you sacrifice position for the Ippon, or submission moves where you sacrifice your face for a gogoplata. But they will show how to slam someone out of the clinch, or slap on an armbar from bottom-side guard.

    It's also worth noting that a good number of Kaju instructors realize their own shortcomings and cross-train on their own -and encourage their students to do the same- in the base arts that form the style. You can never have too many ingredients in a good stew, so all cross-training can do is bring more to the school, increase the talent pool, and make both the student and the style stronger. Unfortunately if you happen to find a school that doesn't embrace such open-mindedness, and is set on whatever they consider "pure" or "traditional" then, well you get what you pay for.

    Is being good all around better than specializing?
    IMO yes. Specializing is awesome if you intend to use that specialization. I specialize in BJJ because I enjoy training and competing in BJJ. I also train in BJJ because it makes me more well rounded in what really matters to me...fighting. Sure you could specialize by training 7 days a week doing Boxing, BJJ, Wrestling, Judo, etc... but most likely you will just end up getting the same result (sucking at them all individually) and pay a whole lot more money.

    Again IMO, if your goal is actually competitive MMA fighting, then go somewhere that has a focus on that. My recommendation would be to find a base art to focus on for a few years, more than likely BJJ, and then expand that into other areas so you have an edge in the cage. If you want broken down, simple and efficient self defense training, then why not go somewhere that actually has a focus on that?


    How good are the techniques taught at a kaju class compared to the training at one of the root schools?
    At most places, probably sub-par. Who's gonna have better hands, a mixed guy who only integrates part of it into his overall game, or a pro boxing coach? Who's gonna have better throws, a Judo BB or a Kaju instructor who only uses a handful of high percentage throws? But who's going to win a fight? And if this discussion is going to devolve now into an all out style vs style / Purist vs Mixed debate, I'll refer everyone reading to UFC's 1-30.
    Last edited by Ke?poFist; 10/21/2008 10:59am at .
    Knowing is not enough, you must apply...
    ...Willing is not enough you must do
    ~Bruce Lee

  7. Asriel is offline
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    I'd like to leave this world like I came into it: Screaming, naked & covered in someone else's blood

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2008 1:30pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai (BJJ hiatus)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ke?poFist
    Hawaiian Kempo (Kajukenbo offshoot) and MMA training camp.
    In Chuck Liddel's book, he states that his teacher at the pit; John Hackleman renamed it to Hawaiian Kempo for purely commerical reasons.
    " The reason elite level MMAists don't fight with aikido is the same reason elite level swimmers don't swim with their lips." - Virus

    " I shocked him with my skills on the ice becuase Wing Chun is great for hockey fighting." - 'Sifu' Milt Wallace

    "Besides, as you might already know (from Virus, for example) - there's only 1 wing chun and it sucks big time" - Tonuzaba

    "Even when I'm promising mayhem and butt-chicanery, I'm generally posting with a smile on my face." - Sochin101

    "That said, if he blocked my hip on a drop nage, I would extend my leg into a drop tai Otoshi and slam him so hard his parents would die." - MTripp

  8. Ke?poFist is offline
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    Enforcer of Northeast Anti-Silliness Department Inc.

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    Posted On:
    10/12/2008 4:58pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Asriel
    In Chuck Liddel's book, he states that his teacher at the pit; John Hackleman renamed it to Hawaiian Kempo for purely commerical reasons.

    It made it his own thing, which it is, and it helps avoid any politics and BS getting in the way of your day.
    Last edited by Ke?poFist; 10/13/2008 9:58am at .
    Knowing is not enough, you must apply...
    ...Willing is not enough you must do
    ~Bruce Lee

  9. Asriel is offline
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    I'd like to leave this world like I came into it: Screaming, naked & covered in someone else's blood

    Join Date
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    Posted On:
    10/13/2008 3:22am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai (BJJ hiatus)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Can't say fairer than that
    " The reason elite level MMAists don't fight with aikido is the same reason elite level swimmers don't swim with their lips." - Virus

    " I shocked him with my skills on the ice becuase Wing Chun is great for hockey fighting." - 'Sifu' Milt Wallace

    "Besides, as you might already know (from Virus, for example) - there's only 1 wing chun and it sucks big time" - Tonuzaba

    "Even when I'm promising mayhem and butt-chicanery, I'm generally posting with a smile on my face." - Sochin101

    "That said, if he blocked my hip on a drop nage, I would extend my leg into a drop tai Otoshi and slam him so hard his parents would die." - MTripp

  10. Dmachine is offline

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    Posted On:
    10/20/2008 10:05am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: kempo/jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ke?po Fist,
    You talk about BJJ, Do you have a Kempo back ground?
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