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  1. Beorn is offline

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    Mar 2008
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    Cincy, Ohio
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    Posted On:
    3/08/2008 8:47pm


     Style: TKD, judo, MT noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Bullshido on campus

    Hey guys this isn't a specific thread about one bad school or one bad instructor, this is more about an epidemic that i have seen first hand and also heard of at many other institutions, which is terrible martial arts clubs on campus. college is a time when people are supposed to broaden their horizons, and alot of people decide to dothis by taking up a martial art. So i get to Ohio State last year (i am a sophomore), and at that point i had taken tae kwon do for 4 years at a solid, traditional school so i had a decent idea what i wanted, and for the time being i wanted to continue tkd. My first flag went off when there were FOUR tkd clubs. that is completly unnecessary. as much as i love tkd, there is one kind, and therefore needs to be only one club. my flags further went up when i was telling them that i had four years of experience, and they assumed i should be at least a third degree, when i had gotten my first maybe 6 months before i came up. but i break down and i decide to go to a class.

    The fuckers were retarded. first they were pissed cause i wore my full uniform as opposed to pants and a t shirt. then these guys come up to me fawning cause i am a blackbelt, but they are 4th degrees so they're the cats fuckin ass. the guy and the girl were my age and if they were 4th degrees, i am a grandmaster, and im not going to the olympics anytime soon. we go through drills, and they say to do reverse roundhouses down the floor. this conversation follows:

    instructor: hit with the heel

    me: its a reverse round house, ur foot should be in the same position as a round house

    instructor: well here we do it with the heel

    me: well thats a hook kick

    instructor: well arent those the same thing?

    sigh..

    so i never went back. and it wasn't just tkd. later on i went to a wu-shu class with my gf at the time (btw, completely physcho, still dont know where the **** that came from) and it was cute, but some of the people there actually thought they could fight, and the instructor was egging them on. now i was polite enough not to throw down in their class, but later on at a party in my house, the instructor,who was drunk, confided in me that all they did was glorified gymnastics, and that i would kill him in a real fight, which is y he was so apologetic for me finding him in my room with a girl. the list goes on to include at least one karate club, the capoeria club, three quarters of all the mma clubs, ect,ect...

    thats not to say that there aren't awesome instruction here. the judo club and ju jutsu club have produced national champions, the shotokan club has national level competitors (mostly forms, but they hold their own in sparring) and there is even a decent mma club. but the problem is that the bullshido schools control the hierarchy and it is fucked up. my ju jutsu club, that had over 20 students three days a week, got booted from from our time by a tkd school that has on average FIVE students. they claimed they needed matts,a tkd club, and even tried to fight me and my instructor, more on that later

    so yeah sorry for the long rant, but i have heard of similar and even worse situations at colleges my friends go to. i was just wondering if this was common and if there are any suggestions to fix it, cause we are trying and no one seems to be listening. thanks for the feedback guys.
  2. Tango M.F. is offline

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    Jun 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, CA
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    Posted On:
    3/08/2008 9:10pm


     Style: Mixed Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn
    they claimed they needed matts,a tkd club, and even tried to fight me and my instructor, more on that later

    I am intrigued, sir.

    I was part of a really good muay thai/kickboxing club that trained with a shotokan club at the college I used to go to. The karate guys and gals were good to work with, as they were fast as hell, and we all sparred at least twice a week.

    The only weird thing was the people we seemed to attract:

    The girl who looked like she was ten and performed kata like it was a tango dance (to the head-shaking amusement of the sensei);

    the mma wanna-be who would wander off and hit the bag with sloppy haymakers when the rest of us were doing pad-work;

    the fat kid who came for a single class, saw that we were actually sweating, and never came back;

    the guy who came to the club with his girlfriend and started instructing her about how, "A palm strike to the face will drive the nose-bone into the brain and kill a person;"

    the uber-hot asian kung-fu girl who would randomly break out into flowery staff forms (where the **** did she even get the staff from, now that I think about it);

    and of course the assorted wanna-be asian white dudes who had chinese character tats, smoked way to much ganj and thought they were Bruce Lee.

    On the plus side we had several amateur fighters, a few guys who trained in Thailand and came back with awesome technique and balls-to-the-wall conditioning, some karate black-belts who fucking owned in sparing, and of course a cool old Japanese guy teaching karate.

    I actually miss the place a lot.

    Edit: I just remembered about the time "palm-strike" boy interrupted me when I was teaching a pad-work session to try and teach me akkido. It didn't work at all, and I had to curtly remind him to focus on the pad-work combos we were doing.
    Last edited by Tango M.F.; 3/08/2008 9:16pm at .
  3. seriousmantid is offline

    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    3/08/2008 9:39pm

    supporting member
     Style: 8 step preying mantis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Why don't you just find a class you like and let the others do their thing. If you don't like the clubs then don't join. Why complain about everyone else. It sounds as if you are just trying to toot your own horn, without looking like you are. Now that is just my observation from this side of the keyboard.
  4. Beorn is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/08/2008 10:11pm


     Style: TKD, judo, MT noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i complain for the same reason that anyone complains here. shoddy training and dubious ranks make the martial community as a whole worse. im not saying i am a great martial artist, i have so far to go its ridiculous, but i know i can progress because i have excellent instruction with a proven track record. and alot of these kids will go to some tournament on campus thinking theyre tough **** and getting hurt, or even coming into my class, telling me they have all this experience, and getting hurt because i go fullblast based on what they have told me when theyare not as good as their instructor has told them, and that can get people hurt.

    example: i am in one of our rooms with the wrestling matts shadow boxing and warming up when i spot a guy doing the same thing,we get to talking and decide to do some light sparring, becasue neither of us have brought sparring gear. he tells me he has been doing capoeria for two years, and has beaten some kids from the karate club that i respect. so at first im going easy,not trying to grapple him at all, just striking. i kick him a few times and he does this little spin catwheel thing and kicks me in the ankle. i just kind of stare at him and let him stand back up, and i ask him what that was supposed to do.

    "well if i had kicked full force u would have fallen down"

    uh huh

    so i tell him that he can feel free to do that full force next time. i let him do it once, i dont go down. so i tell him he should probably stop doing that because it leaves him flat on his back and very exposed. he doesn't listen so the next time he does it i lift the leg he kicked at and throw an axe kick that i stop a little bit over his stomach. i feel like ive made my point,so we keep sparring.we go for a little bit, AND HE TRIES IT AGAIN. this time i am pissed so when he hits his back i go to side mount and kimura him, then stop sparring. this kid had been told by his instructor that he was some kinda prodigy and that there were these "go to" moves that would work on the street, and **** like that can get u killed in the wrong part of town, which fortunately is just south of osu, in between us and the nice part of columbus. **** like that is bad for all martial artists, not just the guy who gets his ass kicked.

    next time: 5 tkd black belts vs my ju jutsu instructor? i think hes ok
  5. Blue Negation is offline

    Woke up in the mortuary

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    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    1,228

    Posted On:
    3/08/2008 10:12pm


     Style: Judo, Sub wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn
    Hey guys this isn't a specific thread about one bad school or one bad instructor, this is more about an epidemic that i have seen first hand and also heard of at many other institutions, which is terrible martial arts clubs on campus. college is a time when people are supposed to broaden their horizons, and alot of people decide to dothis by taking up a martial art. So i get to Ohio State last year (i am a sophomore), and at that point i had taken tae kwon do for 4 years at a solid, traditional school so i had a decent idea what i wanted, and for the time being i wanted to continue tkd. My first flag went off when there were FOUR tkd clubs. that is completly unnecessary. as much as i love tkd, there is one kind, and therefore needs to be only one club. my flags further went up when i was telling them that i had four years of experience, and they assumed i should be at least a third degree, when i had gotten my first maybe 6 months before i came up. but i break down and i decide to go to a class.

    The fuckers were retarded. first they were pissed cause i wore my full uniform as opposed to pants and a t shirt. then these guys come up to me fawning cause i am a blackbelt, but they are 4th degrees so they're the cats fuckin ass. the guy and the girl were my age and if they were 4th degrees, i am a grandmaster, and im not going to the olympics anytime soon. we go through drills, and they say to do reverse roundhouses down the floor. this conversation follows:

    instructor: hit with the heel

    me: its a reverse round house, ur foot should be in the same position as a round house

    instructor: well here we do it with the heel

    me: well thats a hook kick

    instructor: well arent those the same thing?

    sigh..
    It's TKD... you can't expect much.

    so i never went back. and it wasn't just tkd. later on i went to a wu-shu class with my gf at the time (btw, completely physcho, still dont know where the **** that came from) and it was cute, but some of the people there actually thought they could fight, and the instructor was egging them on. now i was polite enough not to throw down in their class, but later on at a party in my house, the instructor,who was drunk, confided in me that all they did was glorified gymnastics, and that i would kill him in a real fight, which is y he was so apologetic for me finding him in my room with a girl. the list goes on to include at least one karate club, the capoeria club, three quarters of all the mma clubs, ect,ect...
    Yeah the Wu Shu stuff looks cool and I took that class. Which instructor was this? Was it one of the student ones? Not Josh was it?

    And how many MMA clubs are there anyways? I've heard about the do jung isshu guys but never trained with them and the JKD/FMA club is legit (and run by a national Kali champ, BJJ purple, semi-pro MMA fighter), hope you weren't talking about them. But what are the rest?

    thats not to say that there aren't awesome instruction here. the judo club and ju jutsu club have produced national champions, the shotokan club has national level competitors (mostly forms, but they hold their own in sparring) and there is even a decent mma club. but the problem is that the bullshido schools control the hierarchy and it is fucked up. my ju jutsu club, that had over 20 students three days a week, got booted from from our time by a tkd school that has on average FIVE students. they claimed they needed matts,a tkd club, and even tried to fight me and my instructor, more on that later
    Yeah don't **** with the Judo club. I can't touch any of their black belts on the ground, let alone standing, and their browns vary from tooling me to being a serious but beatable challenge - on the ground. Standing I'm basically a throwing dummy. The Ju-jutsu club... do you mean the Seiei-kan with the Swedish guy? I've never had a high impression of them - what competitions have they won?

    so yeah sorry for the long rant, but i have heard of similar and even worse situations at colleges my friends go to. i was just wondering if this was common and if there are any suggestions to fix it, cause we are trying and no one seems to be listening. thanks for the feedback guys.
    All you can do to fix it is try to attract more members to the legit clubs so they get room and time preference and crowd the **** ones out. The problem is that it's hard to attract people to real clubs where you have to sweat and fight, like the Judo club where one of the instructors is a 350 lb rokudan who likes to narrate his randori sessions about 3 seconds ahead of time and you know you can't stop him from doing whatever it is that he just called out ("Osoto gari? **** **** ****") and can kesa gatame people into near unconsciousness.
  6. The Question is offline
    The Question's Avatar

    Octopussy!

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    Posted On:
    3/08/2008 10:26pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Striking/Grappling/Poking

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Campus Martial Arts clubs are esentially going to be a cross section of Martial Arts in wider society. Yes, that means there will be lots of LARPing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goju - joe
    being a dick with skill is only marginally better than being a dick without skill.
  7. Beorn is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/08/2008 10:41pm


     Style: TKD, judo, MT noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Negation
    It's TKD... you can't expect much.
    yeah but for someone claiming to be near master rank to be less knowledgable (and in my opinion, skilled) than a first degree is shameful

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Negation
    Yeah the Wu Shu stuff looks cool and I took that class. Which instructor was this? Was it one of the student ones? Not Josh was it?
    i think so, if its the short athletic guy with the gelled hair that is like a grad student now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Negation
    And how many MMA clubs are there anyways? I've heard about the do jung isshu guys but never trained with them and the JKD/FMA club is legit (and run by a national Kali champ, BJJ purple, semi-pro MMA fighter), hope you weren't talking about them. But what are the rest?
    there's a few, and either they keep changing names or new one pop up, but no the fma guys are pretty decent, the one i know decently well is a prick, but a decent martial artist

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Negation
    Yeah don't **** with the Judo club. I can't touch any of their black belts on the ground, let alone standing, and their browns vary from tooling me to being a serious but beatable challenge - on the ground. Standing I'm basically a throwing dummy. The Ju-jutsu club... do you mean the Seiei-kan with the Swedish guy? I've never had a high impression of them - what competitions have they won?
    yeah i can only beat their bluebelts the one or two times i went , and i wrestled 4 years in high school. steve and some of their other black belts, i stay the **** away from.

    The ju jutsu club is a little bit of an enigma because we dont always train as hard in class as some. (disclosure: i am vice president currently of this club) Master kimly wants to keep the club accesible and there was a pretty high drop out when it was run the way we wanted to, which was basically judo like in conditioning but with more striking and submission. what makes it good now is the access to his ju jutsu and mma classes at his school that he gives us, where the intensity is much higher and as such the skill level. as for awards we have won brian (i dont know his last name off hand) is a 4 time national champ in ju jutsu, and though he is no longer a student at osu he comes back sometimes and kicks our ass when Master kimly cant come. other than that, ill have to ask him because he babbles alot and i kinda stopped listening. Team hammer house was also founded in his gym, so he was the ju-jutsu/striking coach for wes simms,kevin randleman,and mark coleman. I have actrually talked with these guys about this and they can confirm it, but yeah i understand ur skeptisism, especially right now the intensity is not where i would like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Negation
    All you can do to fix it is try to attract more members to the legit clubs so they get room and time preference and crowd the **** ones out. The problem is that it's hard to attract people to real clubs where you have to sweat and fight, like the Judo club where one of the instructors is a 350 lb rokudan who likes to narrate his randori sessions about 3 seconds ahead of time and ySHIT ****") and can kesa gatame people into near unconsciousness. you know you can't stop him from doing whatever it is that he just called out ("Osoto gari? ****
    yeah we are trying, but the sports club just fired their head guy and havent replaced him so they are hesitant to make changes, but over the summer my campaining will be fierce like tiger! lol
  8. FUNKtastic is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/09/2008 12:56am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    my uni campus is not the main one so maybe the size of the student body is an issue but.....

    we have a tkd club. i saw them practicing and they have videos during club day of their "A game". was very unimpressed; katas, board breaking, two step sparring and from what i am told by the pres VERY restricted sparring in higher belts. this means by the time i'm a junior or so i might get to do medium-light sparring with all the tkd equipment and no head shots. bleh.

    there is a self defense club as well. from what i'm told by the pres, he has fought in NAGA and won, fights in Thailand and is some kind of champ and will soon be fighitng in K1. didn't care to hear further on the 'credentials' once i was rolling with some bjj guys that go to my school and he decided he had a back injury. as far as i know it's mostly theater majors and they can't spar so i never even checked it out, i have bjj practice then.

    that's all the clubs we have. i imagine the uni isn't super supportive of anyone who goes hard because we don't have the facilities. when we grappled we had grass and 4 small mats to choose form. and when we rolled on those we had to have a ref pushing them to the appropirate place and stopping us to make sure no one's face hit the bare floor. not that mats would be hard to get but one of the bjj guys told me he tried to start a grappling club and couldnt get it off the ground. on the other hand they did start a kickboxing/grappling when they want club in the main campus but i am not travelling to the bronx everytime i want to roll.

    fortunately tho it is new york and there are good schools all around. the renzo gracie academy is a 15 min subway trip from school.
  9. EternalRage is offline
    EternalRage's Avatar

    WARNING: BJJ may cause airway obstruction.

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    Long Island
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    Posted On:
    3/09/2008 1:08am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bajillion Joo Jizzu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The problem with martial arts clubs on a campus is that most students aren't there to learn how to fight. They just want to try stuff, maybe stay in shape, have a good time, something to escape the studying. I mean c'mon they're COLLEGE students, what would you expect? They want hobbies. Every now and then one of them will get serious about it, or they were serious about it to begin with, and you take them and train them.

    The worst is when the clubs are run or taught mostly by students who go to that college, because usually in the worst cases they aren't doing it for a living or because they love it, they have the same mindset (to some extent) as the students who just wanna try things out or just do things for fun/experience.
  10. TroyForum is offline

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    Suitland, MD
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    Posted On:
    3/09/2008 12:08pm


     Style: Censorship

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tango M.F.

    the uber-hot asian kung-fu girl who would randomly break out into flowery staff forms (where the **** did she even get the staff from, now that I think about it);
    I saw the same thing at Bowie State University back in the day. The was this 5 foot tall drop dead gorgeous asian girl on the yard. She just liked to jog alot and play ball, we didn't have a CMA club at Bowie. Then one day at the Wiseman she busts out w/ this hand form. She was walking back and forth in a straight line and punching like a bad ass. I can't even remember what it was but everybody stopped what they were doing and watched her do this form. Whoa.
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