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  1. Snake Plissken is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/18/2010 5:25pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DSProtection View Post
    Well, I actually don´t give a damn what you think or believe.
    Obviously you do care, otherwise your presence in attempts to defend the system would not have been made.


    Everybody has it´s truth. Glad you have found yours. As I have stated if you bothered to read my first post properly, this is not a martial art. Its selfdefense. You like many other martial artists have a tendency to believe that a martial art automatically works as selfdefense. There do exist evidence of it´s usefulness. It´s used everyday, and as I also stated before, it´s mostly for police and security personal. Systems made for police and security personal tends to look a little different then a martial art.
    Truth is generally supported by proof, otherwise it is simple faith.
    Please prove and not ask us to take it on faith.

    It´s just sad that some people think they are so good and know so much that they have to talk **** about systems they know **** about or only have seen a couple of videoclips from. Instead of trying. If you have tried it and don´t like it, then you could talk **** about it.
    Thus far, I have seen comments made from what you have posted, from your current thread revival. The commentary and videos have illicited this response.
    If you don't like the response, provide better proof.
  2. Petter is offline

    12th level logic wielder

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2010 5:28pm


     Style: BJJ, judo, rapier

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DSProtection View Post
    Well, I actually don´t give a damn what you think or believe.
    Then why are you arguing with me?

    Everybody has it´s truth. Glad you have found yours.
    This makes no sense. It’s also grammatically atrocious. Please go back to school.

    As I have stated if you bothered to read my first post properly, this is not a martial art. Its selfdefense.
    This distinction only ever seems to be made by people who refuse to pressure test their stuff.

    You like many other martial artists have a tendency to believe that a martial art automatically works as selfdefense.
    I wouldn’t describe myself as a “martial artist”, and I would say that there are many so-called martial arts that don’t work as anything much at all.

    There do exist evidence of it´s usefulness.
    Indeed? Well, if you want anyone to believe that, how about you provide some of that evidence?

    Hint: Some random, unknown person who is clearly a proponent of a system arguing by bald assertion does not count as evidence.

    It´s used everyday, and as I also stated before, it´s mostly for police and security personal. Systems made for police and security personal tends to look a little different then a martial art.
    Martial arts intended for restraint &c. may be structured differently than other martial arts, but I am not aware of any reason to make a distinction as though they were disjoint sets.

    It´s just sad that some people think they are so good and know so much that they have to talk **** about systems they know **** about or only have seen a couple of videoclips from. Instead of trying. If you have tried it and don´t like it, then you could talk **** about it.
    Actually, I haven’t said that the system is ****. I have said that you have not provided any reason to think that it isn’t ****, and that if the videos I posted are representative, then we have reason to believe it is in fact ****. (I will point out, here, that I didn’t go on some deep dark search for the worst videos I could find. I just clicked one of the links you provided and posted three of the videos from the first page. If they are unfortunate samples, well, that’s not my fault or my problem.)

    I also haven’t claimed to be good at fighting, at any martial art, or “selfdefense”. I will freely admit that I am not a fighter, and that while I chose a martial art that has plenty of evidence for its efficacy, I will not pretend to be a particularly competent exponent thereof.
    [ petterhaggholm.net | blog | essays ]
    [ self defence: general thoughts | bjj: “don’t go to the ground”? ]
    “The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data.”
  3. DSProtection is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2010 5:32pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Selfdefense

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by helmutlvx View Post
    I'm going to give you a hand and give you a couple ideas to slow down the ****-talking.

    You presented some videos that look like drunk guys hitting each other at a party. Don't do that anymore. Show us some continuous sparring or a typical training session.

    Give some verifiable names of LEOs who have used this system and ways to contact these individuals. Alternatively, they could register here and present their credentials for verification.

    Keep in mind: It is not our job to prove or disprove your claims. That responsibility is placed solely on your shoulders because you are representing ESDS to us. From what you've presented, it is hard to believe such tactics would be used by law enforcement or in a self-defense situation.

    It is now your job to prove to the contrary.
    I don´t need any help thanks. You could talk as much **** as you like. I´m not going to stay on this forum for long. I know what the system is all about, and I like many others have used tecniques and ideas from the system in duty several times during several years.

    If you want to make up your minds after a few videoclips, thats up to you. I don´t care. This training have kept, and keep making me safer when working. Thats my purpose with training. Drunk people hitting each other at a party:-))
    Well, it works. However it looks. Have you seen a real fight? It doesn´t look like a Jackie Chan fight or Steven Seagal fight. I promise you. There´s a reason it looks like it does, but since you are so intersted I´mm not gonna bother explain it to you.

    You want name of LEO:s? Contact IPDTA and you will get hold of a LEO. I don´t hang out anyones names on a forum. They aren´t famous and I aint a papparazzi. And even if I wrote a name of a LEO, you wouldn´t know who it is. Don´t think you know police officers in Sweden do you.

    My job isn´t anything on this forum. I just happened to see this thread and wanted to explain what ESDS is shortly. I´m sorry I did that. Won´t do that again.

    I have nothing to prove, and neither does anyone else training ESDS.

    Best regards/Daniel
  4. helmutlvx is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2010 5:37pm


     Style: In transition

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm sorry you have such a short temper as a police officer.

    While I may not know personally any LEOs from Sweden, this would have made your assertions about ESDS being relevant to police work a verifiable claim.

    If you have nothing else to say, ragequit and get the **** out.
  5. Petter is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2010 5:41pm


     Style: BJJ, judo, rapier

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Given how many threads there are where

    • someone uses “LEOs train it!” or “he’s trained LEOs!” as evidence that a system works, and/or
    • someone uses “military types train it!” or “he’s trained military!” as evidence that a system works,

    and given how many threads there have been where

    • an LEO pointed out how limited (and occasionally downright stupid) most or all LEO-oriented martial arts instruction tends to be, and/or
    • a member of the armed services points out how limited most or all unarmed army combatives tend to be, and/or
    • a member of either law enforcement or armed forces points out how little quality control there is on seminars and outside instructors,

    I sort of feel that someone should write a sticky about it so that we can point to it and say “Hey, look, this is why we will not take your argument seriously.”

    Since I am not nor ever was either in any armed services, nor any kind of LEO, I obviously shouldn’t write any such thing myself, but someone ought to.
    [ petterhaggholm.net | blog | essays ]
    [ self defence: general thoughts | bjj: “don’t go to the ground”? ]
    “The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data.”
  6. DSProtection is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2010 5:45pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Selfdefense

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by helmutlvx View Post
    I'm sorry you have such a short temper as a police officer.

    While I may not know personally any LEOs from Sweden, this would have made your assertions about ESDS being relevant to police work a verifiable claim.

    If you have nothing else to say, ragequit and get the **** out.
    I don´t have a short temper at all. What have I wrote to make you think that? Also, I´m not a Police officer. I work as an security guard authorized by the police. In other countries known as a bouncer, but we work in all public places in Sweden keeping order. As I said, If you want to come in contact with a police officer, contact IPDTA. If I drop names that isn´t going to proof anything is it? If not anybody no who that police is it isn´t a verifiable clame right.

    And don´t worry. I dont have much more to say. I dont have time arguing on a forum. And I dont see the meaning with it. I like the system and it works for me. Thats enough for me. If anyone would like to try it out, Im sure you´re welcome. All I wanted in the first place was to explain shortly what ESDS was about. Not to get everybody to like it by watching videos.

    Have a wonderful day.
    Best regards/Daniel
  7. Petter is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2010 5:55pm


     Style: BJJ, judo, rapier

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DSProtection View Post
    All I wanted in the first place was to explain shortly what ESDS was about.
    But you haven’t actually done that. Your three definite claims about ESDS appear to be

    1. It’s very good.
    2. Hitting someone on the arm really does work because it made someone let go of your baton.
    3. It’s not fair to judge it by the videos you provided.
    [ petterhaggholm.net | blog | essays ]
    [ self defence: general thoughts | bjj: “don’t go to the ground”? ]
    “The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data.”
  8. Snake Plissken is offline
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    Posted On:
    8/18/2010 5:57pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Yes, hello, is this Sweden's Police? Yes, I am calling from AMERICA! YES! THE USA! Let me talk to the cops. What's that? What's this about? Some d00d on the innern00dz told me to call the Sweden Cops and talk to someone cuz they all train in ESDS........wait, what? Hello? HELLO?? ANYONE THERE???"


    Yes, I sense this will all work out well in the end. Fact is, if your system were so great skilled LEO would have verifiable testimonials available for review. Either you don't have testimonial or you don't have verifiable LEO providing them.

    YOU need to prove this claim, not I. You make the assertation, not I. YOU are telling us to believe this claim, not I. Burden of proof falls upon you, not I.
  9. DSProtection is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2010 6:01pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Selfdefense

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Petter View Post
    Given how many threads there are where

    • someone uses “LEOs train it!” or “he’s trained LEOs!” as evidence that a system works, and/or
    • someone uses “military types train it!” or “he’s trained military!” as evidence that a system works,

    and given how many threads there have been where

    • an LEO pointed out how limited (and occasionally downright stupid) most or all LEO-oriented martial arts instruction tends to be, and/or
    • a member of the armed services points out how limited most or all unarmed army combatives tend to be, and/or
    • a member of either law enforcement or armed forces points out how little quality control there is on seminars and outside instructors,

    I sort of feel that someone should write a sticky about it so that we can point to it and say “Hey, look, this is why we will not take your argument seriously.”

    Since I am not nor ever was either in any armed services, nor any kind of LEO, I obviously shouldn’t write any such thing myself, but someone ought to.
    Hey, you know what! I totally agree with you on this one. That was the reason I registred in this forum. To be able to read about whats real and whats not. And as said before, I stumbled upon this thread and since I train the system, knows who is training it, and have used some of it myself in my work, I just wanted to explain shortly about it.

    I haven´t said it´s the only system to train, because it isn´t. One could learn something from every system or martial art. I have trained different martial arts myself, and I loved bits and pieces from everyone of it. And I try to learn from as many people as possible all the time. But in my kind of work, the system I have had the most out of is the ESDS training. We pressure test it when we train even there aren´t that many videos of just that. And the thing I learn from it is to act during stress and adrenalin.

    About my grammar, well I am Swedish. Not english. So I want go back to school. I´m a little to old for that.

    Once again, I´m sorry for writing something about ESDS. It want happen again. I just wanted to explain a little. I´m a most humble and nice person, but I can´t really prove that either by writing here. You would have to see me in person to decide that.

    I´m not going to argue here anymore now, and I wish everybody the best with whatever they are doing.

    Take care.
    Best regards/Daniel
  10. DSProtection is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/18/2010 6:04pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Selfdefense

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Plissken View Post
    "Yes, hello, is this Sweden's Police? Yes, I am calling from AMERICA! YES! THE USA! Let me talk to the cops. What's that? What's this about? Some d00d on the innern00dz told me to call the Sweden Cops and talk to someone cuz they all train in ESDS........wait, what? Hello? HELLO?? ANYONE THERE???"


    Yes, I sense this will all work out well in the end. Fact is, if your system were so great skilled LEO would have verifiable testimonials available for review. Either you don't have testimonial or you don't have verifiable LEO providing them.

    YOU need to prove this claim, not I. You make the assertation, not I. YOU are telling us to believe this claim, not I. Burden of proof falls upon you, not I.
    IPDTA isn´t the Swedish police. It´s an organisation.

    And as I said before, my discussion ends here.

    Best regards/Daniel
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