Warrior Concepts International

**Diesel_tke** · Posted On: 11/02/2008 3:04pm

Originally Posted by Lonestar

When I get the chance I will sit in on one of his classes. Also I have been looking for his students at tournaments. I heard they go to them but so far I haven't seen any of them.

I cannot comment on his wrist take down. To me it looks great. But then I suck takedowns. I am taught it, but I suck at it.

I do have to admit that his adveritising is over the top like most guys selling crap.

http://kuden.mypodcast.com/ What do you guys make of what he says on his podcasts? He sounds like he knows his stuff.

We got taught a wrist lock like that when I went through the academy. The first time I tried it in a real situation, I got punched in the back of the head by the guy's other hand. Needless to say, I stopped practicing that technique.

**sambosteve** · Posted On: 11/02/2008 3:26pm

Originally Posted by diesel_tke

We got taught a wrist lock like that when I went through the academy. The first time I tried it in a real situation, I got punched in the back of the head by the guy's other hand. Needless to say, I stopped practicing that technique.

True that. Nobody grabs like that. And if they do, they will be attacking with the other arm...via weapon, fist, whatever. Ask any judoka, sambist, or BJJ player about how people grip and how hard it is to break when someone really wants to keep hold. The uke in that video has horrible balance and was completely submissive. This is why we consistently work grips and breaks agaist resistance. The video demonstates that these guys don't know what they are doing IMO. It would be different if they were showing something slow, but technically sound to demonstrate...and then showing at again with some resistance. But, then again...maybe it is too deadly to do with resistance ;)

**Siniq** · Posted On: 11/02/2008 3:35pm

Is somebody going to do anything about this or if not - YMAS maby?

**Sakushin** · Posted On: 11/02/2008 4:18pm

$15,000 a year? Really? Really? Thats not a joke?:ninjadanc

**Siniq** · Posted On: 11/02/2008 5:20pm

so college degree or ninjers college degree or ninjers hmmmmmm...

**dracsmith** · Posted On: 9/29/2010 2:15pm

So, does anyone know anything more about Shidoshi Jeffrey M. Miller, and Warrior Concepts International (362 Market Street, Sunbury, Pa. 17801)?

I studied at WCI for six years (until I moved to another state, or I would have stayed longer). The website and the video don't entirely convey what Mr. Miller is really like. He's an exceptionally good teacher, knows the material inside and out, and updates his own training with yearly visits to Hatsumi-soke in Japan. He is also knowledgeable about the history and the philosophy behind ninjutsu; at my invitation, he visited the university where I now teach and addressed my students in an upper-level course on philosophy in martial arts.

**Soldiermedic** · Posted On: 9/29/2010 3:18pm

Welcome to bullshido. If you'll notice, the last time this topic was las addressed about 2 years ago. The person who originally posted this most likely has moved on.

But while you are here, could you address why the videos in question were posted on the website if they do not "convey" what the instructor is all about?

**dracsmith** · Posted On: 9/29/2010 3:24pm

Thank you for the welcome! I understand the thread is out of date, but no one else seemed to have posted who had actually attended the school, so it seemed to be a place where I could contribute something relevant from my own experience.

I can't speak to the purpose of the videos, alas; I wasn't involved in putting them up.

**Ushi** · Posted On: 9/29/2010 4:05pm

Wow. When they told me this thread was here I had to rejoin. I haven't visited this forum in 2-3 years because all you usually see is negative bashing by people who have never walked into the dojo they are bashing.
I am a current student of Shidoshi Miller's. I have previous experience in Kosho ryu Kempo, Nanban Sato Ryu Jujitsu, Nagano Ryu and to a lesser degree have trained in several schools of kung fu and budo. I am always skeptical about teacher's claims unless I get a refference from a teacher I already trust. To that end I saw Shidoshi Millers website and articles for years before taking him seriously. What did it for me was listening to the kuden podcasts another poster mentioned above and hearing almost the same words my most trusted teacher used when I was younger.

One of the main things that makes me stay with him now is that he encourages all his students not to trust him and to validate what he is teaching. He has even gone to the point of recommending that we TRY to make what he teaches fail.

He does bring real experience from the police and military world and gives practical application but doesn't teach us things "because they are used by the military" or things like that. He tries to teach things because they work.

As for the videos...I can't speak for them either but as a student I have seen many many videos and I can tell you all the training videos he makes are created from the perspective of the lesson. If you are only going to teach the highest level of proficiency then you would see a peaceful master who never went places that were violent, knew how to avoid conflict and could negotiate his way out of situations. If you have to dial it down from that upper level to show the technique how do you show it? The way the master would do it after years of practice? or would you show it the way the student could realistically perform it so he has an attainable goal?

I don't know....It may have been a crappy video....It may have been the above or something else. Just like I can't criticize a school I have never been in I also can't judge an event I was not part of so Who knows.

I can say that there are classes I leave inspired and uplifted and classes I leave wondering if he is trying to make us all quit. I do however always leave with something to think about and technique to practice and test.

Just my 2 cents worth. I can't defend him or his school or anything except for the experience I have had with him and that has been educational and worth the money practice and time so far. Hope that helps whoever wants to know.

**BackFistMonkey** · Posted On: 9/29/2010 4:21pm

Originally Posted by Ushi

Wow. When they told me this thread was here I had to rejoin. I haven't visited this forum in 2-3 years because all you usually see is negative bashing by people who have never walked into the dojo they are bashing.

You need to read more because you are wrong. It has never been like that. We always try to get eyes on the ground always try to invite the people involved to come and discuss the topic at hand.

I am a current student of Shidoshi Miller's. I have previous experience in Kosho ryu Kempo, Nanban Sato Ryu Jujitsu, Nagano Ryu and to a lesser degree have trained in several schools of kung fu and budo. I am always skeptical about teacher's claims unless I get a refference from a teacher I already trust. To that end I saw Shidoshi Millers website and articles for years before taking him seriously. What did it for me was listening to the kuden podcasts another poster mentioned above and hearing almost the same words my most trusted teacher used when I was younger.

Word of mouth is a good place to start.

One of the main things that makes me stay with him now is that he encourages all his students not to trust him and to validate what he is teaching. He has even gone to the point of recommending that we TRY to make what he teaches fail.

So you all spar and drill with aliveness? Do you have any videos which show such training?

He does bring real experience from the police and military world and gives practical application but doesn't teach us things "because they are used by the military" or things like that. He tries to teach things because they work.

What branch and what type of law enforcement experience does he claim to have ?

As for the videos...I can't speak for them either but as a student I have seen many many videos and I can tell you all the training videos he makes are created from the perspective of the lesson.

I don't know what you mean ... if you are saying all his videos are about the topic of the video ... ... I would hope so, that should be a given.

If you are only going to teach the highest level of proficiency then you would see a peaceful master who never went places that were violent, knew how to avoid conflict and could negotiate his way out of situations.

That is not martial arts that is conflict avoidance and general life skills.

If you have to dial it down from that upper level to show the technique how do you show it?

You show it in a compliant setting a few times then show it work under pressure.

The way the master would do it after years of practice? or would you show it the way the student could realistically perform it so he has an attainable goal?

You show it just like I stated above. You should have an idea of what a good instructor teaches and how ...

I don't know....It may have been a crappy video....It may have been the above or something else. Just like I can't criticize a school I have never been in I also can't judge an event I was not part of so Who knows.

Training and instructional videos are a pretty good indication of what to expect in person.

You should have enough experience to look at an instructional video and know if something is feasible or purely compliant.

I can say that there are classes I leave inspired and uplifted and classes I leave wondering if he is trying to make us all quit. I do however always leave with something to think about and technique to practice and test.

Just my 2 cents worth. I can't defend him or his school or anything except for the experience I have had with him and that has been educational and worth the money practice and time so far. Hope that helps whoever wants to know.

If you are going to a martial arts class to feel inspired and uplifted I guess you are getting what you pay for there ...

I train to learn how to fight.