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  1. It is Fake is offline
    It is Fake's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    12/14/2010 11:30pm

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     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by seekchat View Post
    What bias? Stating my experiences about ATA are a bias? And you have none? You have a huge chip on your shoulder!
    I have a chip? If I have a chip you must have a boulder because, you are still crying about things I never addressed. I said you need to learn about Martial Arts.How about you get that justification boulder out of your eye. You are reading things into my posts that do not exist.

    Getting mad at being told that you need to learn about martial arts before dividing it up into Hardcore, sport, adult, child and other weird things shows Bias.

    I've posted my experience for individuals who may be researching ATA as an option for their children. I could have benefitted from the information before I signed onto ATA. Overall, I am satisfied with my ATA experience, but there were surprises. I'm not interested in verbal (or physical, lol) sparring with you or anyone else.
    Thanks further clarification that your name is ironic. So, what you want is to be able to post uncontested diatribes? Well, see you later as you will not like this website.
    I didn't post this (my original post) for you or people who want to attack me or ATA. It's for people who want to know more about ATA.
    Now, you attacked me with passive aggressive insults twice. More Irony.
  2. Miguksaram is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/16/2010 10:15am

    supporting member
     Style: Shorei-ryu & Kumdo & TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by seekchat View Post
    Yeah, the park district sports programs...not so impressive. The students/young-adults teaching there don't know the first thing about commitment or respect, much less character-building.
    And you know this how? By talking with them...by watching one or two classes...by observing them and then using your vast indepth martial arts experience? Also, is there only one park district in your town that teaches only one specific martial art?

    I personally found the ATA cost worthwhile, although I did not appreciate the undisclosed costs. My kids learned basic tae kwon do, sans the sweeps and ground fighting. And we are not actually planning on going to another martial arts school. So...?
    But didn't you say ATA was good for exercise but you didn't consider it "real" martial arts? So they were learning martial arts but they weren't learning "real" martial arts? What exactly is your definition of "real" and what, if any, experience do you hold in order to justify what "real" martial arts is and isn't?



    Your point? People should know what they are getting into before they sign? Yes, I agree, that was the point I was trying to make, along with the fact that in such a circumstance, there is no accountability on behalf of the school. So parents should observe classes and talk to current and previous attendees before they commit.
    Ok...and by that statement alone, you have no reason to be upset with the undisclosed costs that you are referencing. You said yourself you should observe classes, talk to current and previous attendees. How about just asking the simply question to the person who gave you the contract "Are there any other fees I need to know about?"

    Speaking as a person who has been involved in martial arts for 30 years, belt test fees are just a natural thing. I never mention it to anyone signing up, not because I'm unethical, it is because frankly I don't think about it, becaue it has always just been a part of the martial art school culture. My guess is the person who gave you the contract is the same way. So before you go off half-cocked about them being unethical, you should actually try to understand both sides.


    Have you heard the news about the BBB? Pay the money, you get an A. Don't pay, you get a bad grade. Don't hang your hat on the BBB!
    Then stop all payments, don't show up to classes and when they push the issue take them to court. Regardless you will still have to prove they are not doing their job in providing quality teaching.

    The stated purpose of the contract was for the achievement of black belt. (Boy, I'm going to get some nasty comments about that!) Any reasonable person would not expect additional charges (membership and testing fees) outside of the contract required to achieve black belt, other than for equipment.
    Not true. I have signed up thousands of people in my 30 years. I rarely ever speak about testing fees. I have never had an instance yet were someone claimed that I was unethical or that I should have disclosed the fees nor have I had anyone come pissed off because they didn't know about the testing fees. Go into most sports and you have some sort of Organization fee to pay. Baseball, Football, Hockey, whatever....there are always fees to pay.

    You interpreted "take exception with" as my being PO'd? Interesting jump. What I was trying to say was that I said I didn't appreciate ATA's methodolgy of requiring payments above and beyond the contract in order to achieve the goal stated in the contract.
    Fine...PO's is too harsh. Your exception should be towards yourself for not doing your homework or asking all possible questions such as "Are there any other fees outside of monthly tuition?"

    Overall, my experience with ATA was very positive and it was a good experience for my kids. The end!
    Then why even chime in on this thread in the first place with an elongated posting when all you had to say was the above. The more detail you give the more you will questioned. Don't be pissy with us because we are seeking chat with you.
    Jeremy M. Talbott

    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
    Quote Originally Posted by D.Murray
    "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
    Quote Originally Posted by hangooknamja88 View Post
    My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


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  3. Miguksaram is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/16/2010 10:28am

    supporting member
     Style: Shorei-ryu & Kumdo & TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by seekchat View Post
    What bias? Stating my experiences about ATA are a bias? And you have none? You have a huge chip on your shoulder!
    No stating your opinoin on ATA is not biased. Making statements on what you consider "real" based on exposure to one martial art and no experience yourself in the martial arts is biased.


    I've posted my experience for individuals who may be researching ATA as an option for their children. I could have benefitted from the information before I signed onto ATA. Overall, I am satisfied with my ATA experience, but there were surprises. I'm not interested in verbal (or physical, lol) sparring with you or anyone else. I didn't post this (my original post) for you or people who want to attack me or ATA. It's for people who want to know more about ATA.
    Then you should post your experience as an information sheet not an opinoinated view point. Once you start expression opinoins such as comparing something to "real" martial arts you should be prepared for such "verbal" sparrings.

    You could have put this:
    I enrolled my children into ATA. My overall experience was very good. They learned martial arts as well as goal setting skills. A person signing up with this organization should also note that they do charge for belt testings and you will have to pay an organizational fee.

    See brief to the point and you get your message across.

    I think Bodhi said it best. This website is not for you.
    Jeremy M. Talbott

    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
    Quote Originally Posted by D.Murray
    "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
    Quote Originally Posted by hangooknamja88 View Post
    My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


    SUPPORT BULLSHIDO!
  4. tkd panda is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/16/2010 12:08pm


     Style: taekwon-do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I dont think he's coming back to play with us anymore.
  5. Miguksaram is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/16/2010 2:39pm

    supporting member
     Style: Shorei-ryu & Kumdo & TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tkd panda View Post
    I dont think he's coming back to play with us anymore.
    We will see...I have a feeling he will.
    Jeremy M. Talbott

    Quote Originally Posted by Phrost
    "Bullshido isn't just a place to hang out when you're browsing the net. We really are trying to accomplish something fucking extraordinary here that nobody's ever had the balls to do before."
    Quote Originally Posted by D.Murray
    "Which is better, to learn the truth, or to enjoy the illusion of being right when you are not?"
    Quote Originally Posted by hangooknamja88 View Post
    My definition of Ki is our energy. it's rather hard to explain it in words. It's not some mystical type of energy like white people...


    SUPPORT BULLSHIDO!
  6. JAFMAS is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2011 10:54am


     Style: Taekwondo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've posted my experience for individuals who may be researching ATA as an option for their children. I could have benefitted from the information before I signed onto ATA. Overall, I am satisfied with my ATA experience, but there were surprises. I'm not interested in verbal (or physical, lol) sparring with you or anyone else. I didn't post this (my original post) for you or people who want to attack me or ATA. It's for people who want to know more about ATA.
    I haven't chimed in for a while since my original post a few months back. Obviously, I needed to learn a bit more about martial arts schools, etc., and read other posts on this forum for additional information and feedback. I've received valuable information about martial arts training as well as physical conditioning on here.

    Personally, my ATA experience has been valuable for me. Of course, there are skeptics because of ATA's reputation as a McDojo, and I understand that people will question my experiences as well.

    My school has been pretty cool so far. In terms of the McDojo approach, I haven't seen it at my school. My instructor has been with the ATA for approximately 40 years and is pretty "old school" and doesn't hand out belts. If you aren't doing what you are supposed to do, you DON'T test. If your technique is bad, or if you don't know the forms, can't spar, etc., you do NOT get to test and do not get promoted in rank.

    Also, and this may be a rarity but even though my school does use contracts, you are permitted to set the terms of the contract. You can do 30 days, 90 days, 6 months, one year, whatever. There is no pressure to sign a long term contract.

    My instructor not only teaches taekwondo, but introduces us to other things as well such as practical self-defense as well as ground fighting.

    On the down side, yes I do see some issues: too much emphasis on forms, board breaks, and having to buy everything through ATA does stink.

    I'm 50 years old and a firm believer too that if you put forth 100% effort, you benefit. If you're there so you can say you have a belt or want to brag about taking taekwondo to friends, you're obviously missing the point.

    I train hard in between classes with strength training and practice kicks and punches, etc. Unfortunately, there are students who come in to class and the moment they walk out the door they do nothing until you see them in class again. Some are overweight and out of shape and I just don't get it....if you do something half-assed, your results will be half-assed.

    I agree....some of the ATA schools are McDojos. I recenltly competed in a tournament and was surprised how terrible some of the students from known belt factories performed.

    I think it's important to do your research. Also, if it comes too easy, something is wrong, whether it's taekwondo or weight training or anything else in life.

    Not looking for an argument here or pages and pages of going back and forth. My point is, it's important to find a good school and work hard.

    At the age of 50, I'm not looking to become a professional fighter. I'm looking for learning to fight, keeping in shape, and having fun but at the same time putting 100% effort into it. I wholeheartedly agree with others who say avoid the long term contracts.

    The other thing I noticed is that fees vary from school to school. I pay $85 a month but one school in my area (which is a McDojo) charges $120 a month. The problem, as I see it, is that the oversight of such a large organization is difficult, if not lacking in some areas. Some instructors and school owners still believe in integrity while others are looking to make a buck.

    Just my opinions, nothing more.
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/04/2011 11:15am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    At the age of 50, I'm not looking to become a professional fighter. I'm looking for learning to fight, keeping in shape, and having fun but at the same time putting 100% effort into it. I wholeheartedly agree with others who say avoid the long term contracts.
    Welcome to bullshido. We aren't saying don't enjoy what you do. The argument "professional fighter" is a tired argument. People take BJJ for the same reasons you listed. People take Muay Thai for the same reasons you listed. People take Boxing for the same reasons you listed. People take MMA for the same reasons you listed.

    If you like what you do enjoy it, but please don't justify it by saying you train this because you don't want to be a professional. I mean seriously, that means no one should play Basket Ball, Base Ball or Tennis.
  8. brihno360 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2011 3:34pm


     Style: Taekwondo, Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    On another topic:

    I cannot decide what I think about this-
    http://www.ataonline.com/mediacenter/media3.asp

    but in one sense I like the fact that they are at least trying to modify our style to incorporate more than just slappy Taekwondo.
  9. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2011 4:13pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What was the point in wearing pads if you're going to use such flimsy weapons. The Asian fellow movement was okay on the ground. I'll give credit where credit is due at least they're trying....

    Still a Mcdojo.
  10. brihno360 is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/27/2011 6:22pm


     Style: Taekwondo, Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    yeah, I don't know what the damn fascination with all the extra padding is- it drives me nuts every time I go to an ATA school.
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