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  1. shadow_priest_x is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/12/2010 1:20am

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    Quote Originally Posted by hungryjoe View Post
    I'm listening to you, but my own experience is that ATA dan rank standards and time for promotion are far below the norm for TKD and the martial arts in general.
    I've actually had an interesting realization regarding the ATA lately.

    My first foray with TKD was in a church program when I was 11 years old. I made it to blue belt before getting a C on my report card and my dad took me out. I never did make it back and at the time I had no conception about the politics of taekwondo.

    I am 28 now. In the interim, I've dabbled in a number of areas of the MA community. I spent a month and half in Chinese wushu and got to the 2nd rank in the style. I spent 6 months in Judo and got a yellow belt. I did a few muay Thai classes and picked up the basics.

    I'm also a massive MMA fan. In fact, I'm a frequent contributor to Ultimate MMA magazine.

    Just recently, I made a return to formal MA training. I could've joined an MT class or an MMA gym, but I guess I'm a traditionalist at heart, and I'm training under an ITF TKD instructor.

    Being old enough to throughly research TKD, however, I realize that the TKD class I took when I was a kid was an ATA class. The reasons I can figure that out is because a) I remember a lot of the elements of the white belt form and can watch vids of Songham 1 and I realize it's the same one I learned, and b) I remember that sparring was not only stop-point but was also light contact without punches allowed to the face, and the ATA is the only org that I know of that has those specific rules. Oddly, it makes WTF fighters look like a murderer's row.

    Anyway, long story short: I have some pretty clear recollections of my training 17 years ago and I can say that my instructors were competent and skilled martial artists. They weren't cage fighters, but they were good at what they did. I felt that I got some good instruction there and, for people who are looking for an MA that's not "hard core" and that's just fun to be involved in, it should do the job and there's no reason to hate on that.

    With that said, I have no idea what other schools are like. I've heard about 30 minute classes and block training and all that ****. I guess I would just say that, if my experience means anything, then there are ATA schools out there that provide a worthwhile experience, even if that experience would not satisfy serious martial artists.

    Quote Originally Posted by hungryjoe View Post
    Now, by your thinking, my opinion does not necessarily merit respect, but I do? OK, I'm playing a bit here, but the idea stands.
    Hey, it depends on whether or not that thought was uttered sincerely. All I'll say is that people should be treated like people. If someone says something stupid, it's usually better to try to lead them along slowly and respectfully than to call them a moron and an idiot, which seems to be the SOP around here.

    Quote Originally Posted by hungryjoe View Post
    Promoting people under such loose standards, granting them instructor status and the subsequent next crop, makes the ATA in general one of the bottom dwellers of the TMA pool. With this progression, the ATA has declined in most cases. Sure, there are probably some good schools out there, but they are surely the exception to the rule.

    For the most part, the ATA is respected by it's members and the families thereof. You'll find little respect for the organization as a whole from people who have given blood, sweat, tears and years to earn what the ATA gives after the check has cleared.
    No argument here. I'm sure you're right. I definitely agree that high standards are necessary for quality control in martial arts.

    I obviously haven't had any adult experience with an ATA school and, quite frankly, I would not until they at least fix their sparring rules. I want punches to the head (which is why I'm ITF instead of WTF), at the very least. I also want some decent contact. (I know the ITF is supposedly semi-contact, but the higher in rank you go, the heavier that contact gets. The dan ranks are essentially full contact.) And I want continuous sparring, rather than a stop-point format.

    So the ATA is fucked up from my perspective, and obviously your perspective, but I think you have to look at it in context.
  2. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/12/2010 10:21am

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    Quote Originally Posted by shadow_priest_x View Post
    Like Omega, you also are a pretty big fucking dick. You just run your mouth and give no thoughtful consideration to what anyone says.
    Really? You know maybe you really need to keep things in a bit of context. Step on the mat with me. Where do you live?
  3. shadow_priest_x is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/12/2010 2:21pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega the Merciless View Post
    Really? You know maybe you really need to keep things in a bit of context. Step on the mat with me. Where do you live?
    LOL, some dude on the Internet is calling me out. . .
  4. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/12/2010 3:20pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by shadow_priest_x View Post
    LOL, some dude on the Internet is calling me out. . .
    Wow, you really are insecure. I never said I was calling you out. I said "step on the mat with me where do you live?".

    I say this because if I'm coming to your area it would be easier for me to show you rather than tell you over the internet. I'm a multiple black belt with multiple degrees with a professional fight background. You have very little background in martial arts besides a few lesson. Calling you out would be like Senior in high school calling out a 3rd grader.

    So what area do you live?
  5. shadow_priest_x is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/12/2010 4:43pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega the Merciless View Post
    Wow, you really are insecure. I never said I was calling you out. I said "step on the mat with me where do you live?".

    I say this because if I'm coming to your area it would be easier for me to show you rather than tell you over the internet. I'm a multiple black belt with multiple degrees with a professional fight background. You have very little background in martial arts besides a few lesson. Calling you out would be like Senior in high school calling out a 3rd grader.

    So what area do you live?
    I live in Utah.

    In regard to my "few lessons," it's true that I have mostly dabbled here and there instead of locking down into a single system and achieving something significant in that particular style. But I have been involved in martial arts, to varying degrees, for 20 or so years, so don't make it sound like I just started paying attention to the subject last week. If I didn't know anything then I couldn't write for a martial arts magazine, which I do.

    But the matter is not one of fighting prowess. It's one of courtesy. The moment someone says something you don't agree with you call them an idiot and a moron, and you start touting your 39 or however many years of experience in martial arts.

    I read a lot of what that KHF dude had to say and it didn't seem that unreasonable. Regardless of whether what he was saying was right or wrong--in fact, it was neither, most of it was opinion--there's no need to be a dick to the guy. He wasn't being rude to anyone and was forced into a defensive position by everyone else on the forum. Most of what he said was more or less about his own experience anyway in the ATA, so if he has put the hours in at an ATA school then he deserves to say whatever the **** he wants about it, positive or negative. Besides, it's not like he said you were going to learn to be a championship level kickboxer. He said you get a good workout and learn some basic self-defense and do something that's fun for all ages, and maybe at his school that's exactly right.
  6. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    6/12/2010 4:48pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by shadow_priest_x View Post
    If I didn't know anything then I couldn't write for a martial arts magazine, which I do.

    Proof of this claim please. You are using it to add weight to your opinion, so you'll need to be backing that up in some verifiable fashion.
  7. shadow_priest_x is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/12/2010 4:58pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    Proof of this claim please. You are using it to add weight to your opinion, so you'll need to be backing that up in some verifiable fashion.
    Go pick up a copy of this month's issue of Ultimate MMA (the one with Shane Carwin on the cover). You'll find an article in there about wagering on MMA written by a guy named Soren Patrick Xavier. Well, that's me.

    To anticipate your reply, I'll agree that I could just be pretending to be Soren Patrick Xavier.

    But here's some confirmation: I can tell you that in next month's issue, which hasn't gone to press yet, there's going to be another article I wrote in which I interview Jens Pulver and filmmaker Greg Bayne, about a film that's being made about Jens' life called DRIVEN.

    Now how else would I know that if I didn't write the article, or at least work for the magazine in some other position?

    BTW the article should be pretty interesting. You should check it out.
  8. Kintanon is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/12/2010 5:04pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know the article of which you speak. Do you have en email address provided by the magazine from which you can send me an email? That would be sufficient proof for this conversation I believe. If so you can email to jswentworth at gamil dot com.

    We always like to have more writers here as well, so welcome to the boards. Don't be put off too much by Omega. He's a bit abrasive, but if you can deal with him then the rest of us are sweethearts in comparison.
  9. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/12/2010 5:38pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by shadow_priest_x View Post
    I live in Utah.

    In regard to my "few lessons," it's true that I have mostly dabbled here and there instead of locking down into a single system and achieving something significant in that particular style. But I have been involved in martial arts, to varying degrees, for 20 or so years, so don't make it sound like I just started paying attention to the subject last week. If I didn't know anything then I couldn't write for a martial arts magazine, which I do.

    But the matter is not one of fighting prowess. It's one of courtesy. The moment someone says something you don't agree with you call them an idiot and a moron, and you start touting your 39 or however many years of experience in martial arts.

    I read a lot of what that KHF dude had to say and it didn't seem that unreasonable. Regardless of whether what he was saying was right or wrong--in fact, it was neither, most of it was opinion--there's no need to be a dick to the guy. He wasn't being rude to anyone and was forced into a defensive position by everyone else on the forum. Most of what he said was more or less about his own experience anyway in the ATA, so if he has put the hours in at an ATA school then he deserves to say whatever the **** he wants about it, positive or negative. Besides, it's not like he said you were going to learn to be a championship level kickboxer. He said you get a good workout and learn some basic self-defense and do something that's fun for all ages, and maybe at his school that's exactly right.
    You need to search a bit more. Most of his crap posts have been moved to a different area. I visit Jacksonhole in Wyoming and I've been asked to come Salt Lake area where I have family so Utah isn't out there for a visit.

    Now in my opinion you're starting down that road. I let the asshole comment slide because I don't mind playing the asshole role. I let your interpretation slide because you misunderstood. Now you make the decision because you're going down the road of being a complete ignorant douche bag. If you have something new to contribute let us know. But if you're going to sit behind your keyboard and act like an internet tough guy then you're no better than the other 2 idiots. Add something to the conversation for Christ sake.

    I have said on this thread:
    If you like the ATA go for it.
    Don't delude yourself into believing that the ATA is anything more than it is:
    Is it good TKD? No.
    Will it teach you how to defend yourself? Probably not.
    Can they teach kids good discipline? Sure.
    Can you get a good work out? Maybe.

    So what are you going to say to add to the conversation or do you want to tip your hat and concede it's already been said?
  10. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/12/2010 5:42pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon View Post
    I know the article of which you speak. Do you have en email address provided by the magazine from which you can send me an email? That would be sufficient proof for this conversation I believe. If so you can email to jswentworth at gamil dot com.

    We always like to have more writers here as well, so welcome to the boards. Don't be put off too much by Omega. He's a bit abrasive, but if you can deal with him then the rest of us are sweethearts in comparison.
    **** you.

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