222115 Bullies, 3669 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 21 to 30 of 57
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123 456 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. DdlR is offline
    DdlR's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    4,766

    Posted On:
    2/18/2008 3:42pm

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lu Tze
    Some of the guys were obviously just playing the game, only to get sucker punched or whatever. That's even more gay than dancing around IMO. If you're going to fight, then fucking fight, don't pretend you're dancing and then sidewinder some poor bastard...

    Or is there some cultural aspect to sneakily changing the rules mid fight that I'm not getting?
    Bingo.

    Sneakily changing the rules mid-fight is what capoeiristas call malicia, which means "malice" or 'trickery". It's very much a part of capoeira tradition, dating back to the bad ol' days of the malandros (gangsters) - http://capoeira.union.rpi.edu/histor...apter=Malandro . Just like life in the mean streets, the "rules" of the game sometimes reward those who can break them with the most style.

    At the most innocuous level this can involve simply out-smarting or out-maneuvering your opponent so they look foolish; in a more serious fight, as shown in this clip, it can include all sorts of sucker-punches and sneak attacks.

    Again, the ritual and "rules" of the jogo model a set of strategies that have application beyond just playing the game as a combat sport, or as street performance. If a capoeirista who is skilled in malicia wants to take you down a peg, he may not challenge you to a fight; he might just pretend to be your best buddy, buy you drinks to slow you down, then stab you in the neck when you're not looking. That's malicia.
  2. 7thSamurai is offline
    7thSamurai's Avatar

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Austin, Tx
    Posts
    730

    Posted On:
    2/18/2008 3:45pm


     Style: BJJ, Striking, TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR
    "Getting down to it" depends on your perspective, based on the formal rules and unwritten conventions of the game/sport. The bystanders break these fights up when the fighters step outside the boundaries of what it considered "good play" in a capoeira batizado ("baptism", sort of a grading test/rite of passage).
    I wasn't really considering anything having to do with formalized rules or conventions of play. I was commenting that they appeared to lose composure as capoeiristas (sp) and looked more like every other group of fighters that gets into a brawl. When they were obeying the rules of the sport, they were quite graceful in movement and very althetic, but when they made contact, that all went to crap and their punches and kicks weren't all that spectacular.

    It was just and observation. It looks like what happens when the top TKD bb's at my old school got into a fight. They'd look very skilled until they actually started trying to apply their style.
  3. doninha is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Alexandria, VA
    Posts
    129

    Posted On:
    2/18/2008 3:46pm


     Style: Capoeira, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, games can be hard. Takedowns and a certain level of fighting are allowed, depending on the rules of game being played. One of the points of capoeira is to trick your opponent into making a mistake and capitalizing on it; ie, the sucker punching seen a few times in the video. I think this roda is a "rite of passage" at a Batizado that is much harder than a regular roda would be. I could be wrong though; I'm not familiar with this group.

    And this is not a"resurrection" of the "original" hard style of capoeira. Capoeira was NEVER about just beating down your opponent, it has always been about the trickery and slyness of the game, according to every historical record from early Capoeiristas that I'm aware of. Yes, a dangerous game, but not all out fighting like some of these games. What you see here is a modern incarnation of capoeira that was developed in the 70's and 80's, thanks to Senzala and Abada, when techniques and methodologies from other arts started to be incorporated into the game. Some groups have taken this to another level, like the Capoeira Jujitsu practiced by Grupo Topazio.

    I personally don't like this style of Capoeira. Once the players square off and a punch is thrown or a takedown is attempted, it becomes a sparring match and stops being Capoeira. It was mentioned already, once the fight starts the stylized Capoeira goes out the door. Might as well be a sparring match from the beginning, ya know?
  4. doninha is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Alexandria, VA
    Posts
    129

    Posted On:
    2/18/2008 3:48pm


     Style: Capoeira, MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Oops. Looks like someone beat me to it.
  5. Lu Tze is offline

    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    W. Yorks, UK
    Posts
    5,018

    Posted On:
    2/18/2008 3:49pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just sounds like an excuse to be a sociopath to me. I guess you pick your friends carefully in the slums of Rio, eh?

    Edit: To clarify, it seems to me like sparring with someone, tapping out a couple of times and then saying "oh sorry, we're not doing tapping now" *pop* when you finally catch him in something.
    Last edited by Lu Tze; 2/18/2008 3:51pm at .
  6. cuatro76 is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    928

    Posted On:
    2/18/2008 3:52pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by theword
    On the plus side they all looked like they were in good shape. I assume that's the case with most high level capoeiristas (sp?) given the extremely athletic nature of the sport. I've never been to the strip mall dojos but I read about ten thousand posts on here talking about obese instructors and students in MA, if nothing else I imagine that Capoeira has a much lower percentage of that kind of thing happening.
    Even the tubby capoeira guy was doing cartwheels. Obese American MA-ists, not so much.
  7. Frank White is offline
    Frank White's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    2,456

    Posted On:
    2/18/2008 4:00pm


     Style: chinese boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I don't understand why they don't just seperate the dancing part from the fighting, or have secific rules about how you can hit. It doesnt make sense to say capoeira is pretending to do capoeira, then sucker punch someone, and say that is part of capoeira.I do appreciate the footwork though.
  8. DdlR is offline
    DdlR's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    4,766

    Posted On:
    2/18/2008 4:03pm

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 7thSamurai
    I wasn't really considering anything having to do with formalized rules or conventions of play. I was commenting that they appeared to lose composure as capoeiristas (sp) and looked more like every other group of fighters that gets into a brawl. When they were obeying the rules of the sport, they were quite graceful in movement and very althetic, but when they made contact, that all went to crap and their punches and kicks weren't all that spectacular.

    It was just and observation. It looks like what happens when the top TKD bb's at my old school got into a fight. They'd look very skilled until they actually started trying to apply their style.
    As with most competitive unarmed combat styles, Capoeira is intentionally a stylized game, not a street fight. It's unusual in that, as shown in this clip, the "rules" and conventions of the game sometimes allow for street-fighting, up to a point (which is where the bystanders step in to break it up); more-or-less as a rite of passage and as a reminder that there are no rules in real fighting.
  9. DdlR is offline
    DdlR's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    4,766

    Posted On:
    2/18/2008 4:05pm

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lu Tze
    Just sounds like an excuse to be a sociopath to me. I guess you pick your friends carefully in the slums of Rio, eh?
    That's part of it, yes.

    Edit: To clarify, it seems to me like sparring with someone, tapping out a couple of times and then saying "oh sorry, we're not doing tapping now" *pop* when you finally catch him in something.
    Pretty much, except that AFAIK they're not actually trying to maim each other. Black eyes and bruises, sure.
  10. DdlR is offline
    DdlR's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    4,766

    Posted On:
    2/18/2008 4:11pm

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by switchblade
    I don't understand why they don't just seperate the dancing part from the fighting, or have secific rules about how you can hit. It doesnt make sense to say capoeira is pretending to do capoeira, then sucker punch someone, and say that is part of capoeira.I do appreciate the footwork though.
    Both malicia and the dance/ritual aspects are part of capoeira as a matter of tradition - you can even see vestiges of malicia in "hippy capoeira". You could remove everything that wasn't fighting, but as Doninha mentioned, then it would just be a generic sparring match.
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 123 456 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.