Kempo Clips Is this really BS?

**MonkeyRyu1** · Posted On: 2/17/2008 4:32pm

I saw other Kem(n)po clips on this site but I didn't see any in this style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLC29...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My3aP...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkQQM...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3otI...eature=related

Is this really effective SD?

**Lu Tze** · Posted On: 2/17/2008 4:41pm

Yes, if you study that style an attacker will rue the day he ever lunge punched you.

Seriously, what do you think. Ever been in a fight where the guy just stood there with his arm held out?

**bjjgame** · Posted On: 2/17/2008 5:12pm

alright, my chance to vent. I studied Kosho Ryu Kempo for 7 years, and was close to my black belt. I even met and trained with Hanshi during a few seminars. I put a lot of time, hard work, and money into it. After 7 years I decided to spar with somebody I knew who had taked BJJ for about 6 months. He quickly took me down and arm barred me. It was horrible to realize that all of that time and money had been wasted. Kosho Ryu is like a combo of karate and aikido. It is based on the "octogon" (eight angles to move to during attacks) and manipulation of body parts to control the body. The idea is that any push of a body part (like a swinging arm) creates a pulling part (like the opposite shoulder). If you manipulate one part by stopping it's motion, hyperextending it's motion, etc. in unintended angles (on x,y, and z axis) you will screw up the attack and the attackers balance. They also use things like "female percussion strikes" for disorientation, and generally only use a real strike after "messing up your attack and balance" enough that you are incredibly vunerable. It looks good on paper; for example, if a person punches at you, and you step at a 45 degree angle on the other side of the punch while pushing the shoulder, it makes sense that they would miss you and lose their balance. Unfortunately, none of this actually happens in real fights. It pains me to say this, but yes...It's BS.

**MonkeyRyu1** · Posted On: 2/17/2008 5:53pm

Here... Here!!! 10-4 on that BJJGame. I have done the same. I trained for seven years in Kosho Ryu making it to NIDAN!!!!!! plus five years in the Dillman system. I thought I was going crazy with all of SKSK's elite BS. Hooray, I am not crazy!!!!!. Now, I study Goju Ryu at the advice of a Kyokushinkai Karate teacher who woke me up! Goju Ryu is a big improvement but I wish there was BJJ school nearby.

The brainwashing of SKSK still takes a long time to get over though even after all I have been through that was almost eight years ago.

**mike321** · Posted On: 2/17/2008 7:38pm

"Hanshi Bruce Jushnick demostrate the study of Kosho-Ryu kenpo, the Mitose's Sensei art brougth to all Kenpo practicioners, but undertanded only for few"

This quote accompanied the first video on you tube under the description. So I am not really making a comment on the video proper.

This quote is nonsense in that it implies there is some "secret" Mitose knowledge that leads to effectiveness. James Mitose is a real historical figure who was involved in the development of kenpo. Attaching his name to any given techniques does not prove or disprove their effectiveness. Techniques must stand on their own merits. (This comment would apply to any of the great historical figures from any other art. For some strange reason I do not need Kano's name dropped to realize I have beeen thrown, and no one mentions Helio Gracie to prove that my arm will break if I don't tap.)

**bjjgame** · Posted On: 2/18/2008 12:14am

Originally Posted by MonkeyRyu1

Here... Here!!! 10-4 on that BJJGame. I have done the same. I trained for seven years in Kosho Ryu making it to NIDAN!!!!!! plus five years in the Dillman system. I thought I was going crazy with all of SKSK's elite BS. Hooray, I am not crazy!!!!!. Now, I study Goju Ryu at the advice of a Kyokushinkai Karate teacher who woke me up! Goju Ryu is a big improvement but I wish there was BJJ school nearby.

The brainwashing of SKSK still takes a long time to get over though even after all I have been through that was almost eight years ago.

I had always been concerned with the lack of real sparring (unless you count Hanshi hitting me in the head multiple times with the female percussion strikes while I stood there to demonstrate the "technique"), but the final straw that broke the SKSK brainwashing was when a newbie BJJer destroyed me easily. Nothing breaks through BS like reality.

**Jim_Jude** · Posted On: 2/18/2008 2:21am

Originally Posted by bjjgame

alright, my chance to vent. I studied Kosho Ryu Kempo for 7 years, and was close to my black belt. I even met and trained with Hanshi during a few seminars. I put a lot of time, hard work, and money into it. After 7 years I decided to spar with somebody I knew who had taked BJJ for about 6 months. He quickly took me down and arm barred me. It was horrible to realize that all of that time and money had been wasted. Kosho Ryu is like a combo of karate and aikido. It is based on the "octogon" (eight angles to move to during attacks) and manipulation of body parts to control the body. The idea is that any push of a body part (like a swinging arm) creates a pulling part (like the opposite shoulder). If you manipulate one part by stopping it's motion, hyperextending it's motion, etc. in unintended angles (on x,y, and z axis) you will screw up the attack and the attackers balance. They also use things like "female percussion strikes" for disorientation, and generally only use a real strike after "messing up your attack and balance" enough that you are incredibly vunerable. It looks good on paper; for example, if a person punches at you, and you step at a 45 degree angle on the other side of the punch while pushing the shoulder, it makes sense that they would miss you and lose their balance. Unfortunately, none of this actually happens in real fights. It pains me to say this, but yes...It's BS.

& I can't remember the last time some BJJ-er "shot in" on me in a real fight. So, what's BS, really?
That's hilarious. Some sport fighter shows up with something that you never trained for, & you're ready to just throw the better part of a decade away.

**bjjgame** · Posted On: 2/18/2008 8:52am

There were other reasons as well.

You know, I have recently started taking kickboxing along with BJJ. In these arts, you actively fight, which shows you what works for you and what doesn't. There are many BJJ techniques, for example, that I can do while drilling, but just can't pull off when fighting, and techniques that work for me. I would be concerned with any martial art that doesn't allow full contact fighting to find out what is real and what isn't. I certainly trust my BJJ/Kickboxing to help me in a real fight than I do my Kosho Ryu/Isshinryu/Aikido.

There are vids out there (possibly on this site, I haven't searched here yet for them) of BJJ and Boxing being used in real fights. Can you find vids of Kosho Ryu being used in a real fight? If so, I'd love to see it (that's actually not sarcasm. If I'm wrong, I want to know.)

There are many more videos to back up what I'm saying, but here's some starters (I put in one boxing, and many grappling. I've definitely seen more boxing/muy thai vid evidence.):
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=62156
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=62131
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=61878
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59206
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=49305

**ray jackson** · Posted On: 2/18/2008 2:00pm

Did anyone else catch that part about being the "22th" Kosho Ryu master? Hahaha.

Seriously that all looked like bullshit to me. Why do people think that really complex chop suey moves are somehow better and actually work?

**bjjgame** · Posted On: 2/18/2008 2:58pm

Mitose's son is also claiming to be the grandmaster. Bruce Juchnick's claim is that he received a "masters certificate" from Mitose when Mitose was in prison. Mitose was not allowed to actually train in prison, so the certificate is based on discussions of principles (in Juchnicks defense though, he did have a black belt in another kempo style, I THINK it was Tracey kempo). Mitose's sons claim, believe it or not, is even shakier. He only met his father right at the end of his life, and received no training at all. He claims that the understanding is "in the blood".