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  1. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/01/2010 11:33pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dsimon3387 View Post
    Dsimon writes:

    Final edit! with spelling check!

    02-15-2008, 04:02 PM "Finished up in court it was a good day today."

    When Floyd Webb posted that information to start "the Aguiar" thread he probably had little reason to suspect exactly what would start... This thread took on a life of its own and became, not only a way to document the story of a man and his movie, but part of that story itself.

    Floyd's desire to see a project through, documented in video, is also documented in this thread... in both there are moments of sadness and moments of triumph and a whole lot of humor.

    Accordingly I will give background information and refer any one to public records in Massachussetts for the decisions that have been put fourth in a court of law.

    background information:

    Count Juan Raphael Dante (born John Timothy Keehan in Chicago, Illinois, 4 February 1939, died 25 May 1975) was a martial arts student of Robert Triase. he was both mythological and diabolical. He was one of the first teachers to allow minorities to learn martial arts and he was allegedly part of major crime syndications of various sorts. Nobody had done a movie on this man.... Floyd Webb decided as an independent film maker to take up this task and hence we have the infamous...... "Aguiar Thread."

    Dante's chronology was split in two factions: on the one hand you had Dante's early time, and a considerable amount of the time he spent on earth, in Chicago. From this time were his family (he was raised in Chicago) and a major part of his martial arts history. Dante had been a student in Chicago and a teacher. Later in his life Dante went to Massachussetts and established a school and a following. Specifically this took place in Fall River Massachussetts with the considerable aid of the Aguiar family and other individuals who will be discussed shortly. The singular event which split Dante's life was the dojo storming incident that saw a student & friend killed. The specifics of this event are best discussed in a history of Dante, not in this thread recap, but perhaps THE ONE THING all parties in Chicago and Fall River agree upon, is the hurt Keehan felt when this incident took place and the impact on his future.

    After this incident Dante went on to develop schools in Massachussetts and do other endevours, not always legal enterprises, but Dante was never really the same. It should be noted that Fall River and Chicago would characterize Dante's activities very differently. In Chicago it was generally understood that Dante the martial artist prodigy had suffered and that he was not at his peak when he left town. In Fall River it might be said that Dante concentrated at this point in his life with building his empire: a conglomeration of businesses, martial arts schools, the loyalty of his followers, and power based on dark evil energies.

    With that brief recap of Dante's fate, it should be noted that the tone and tenure of this thread is such, because of alleged hostilites between a group of individuals in Fall River Massachussets and the connection of Dante to the martial arts community in Chicago. Dante dabbled in the dark arts, military matters, business matters and of course was perhaps the first to sponser full contact fighting to an audience... While in Chicago these accomplishments were considered the work of an intelligent martial artist with a knack for charisma, in Fall River it was mythological, it was Dante the hub at the center of an amazing wheel of enterprises.... from drugs, porn and women, to hair dressing!

    Chronology: To detail the minutia of this thread would be a case of not seeing the forest while looking at the trees. I have chosen to chronicle the thread with distinct epoches for each section of the thread.

    a) Webb the wandering film maker.

    Floyd Webb decides to go to Fall River against the advice of Chris Pieschela. Chris is advising Floyd at the time. depending on who one speaks to this advise is substantial, or it is trivial. Floyd goes down and meets with Billy Aguiar, John Creeden Junior and his father (Creeden senior). A deal is worked out for film footage showing Dante... the deal sours. People are insulted. A good deal of the first part of the thread deals with threats, including legal threats and we are introduced to a few characters who will post regularly: The central antagonist is Creeden with Floyd being the central Protagonist.

    1) Floyd Webb. the film maker.

    2) Billy Aguiar. Billy is the son of William Aguiar and the alleged head of the Aguiar line of the Black Dragon's Dante fighting system. Billy decides that he wants a lot of money for Floyd to access Dante's info, Floyd wants to see the materials first. No deal is made

    3) John Creeden Junior. Creeden and his father have a copy of footage that is offered for sale. The deal is consumated but goes sour, chaos ensues.

    4) Coach Barron. Coach Barron wanted to buy certain materials and aid the film and produce other materials. He makes an arriangement with the Creedens and the deal goes sour.

    The thread goes on and on at this juncture about this deal and the legal issues that will result, vis a vis legal threats. Along the way Fall River starts to declare war on Chicago and to question the legitimacy of any other claim on Dante. Billy Aguiar tries to reaffirm that he is the head of all the Black Dragons, as the sole heir to the Fall River branch, which starts our next major thread issue:

    b) Will all the Black Dragons please rise?

    At this point the issue becomes "who is entitled to the name of the Black Dragons?" We are introduced to the international Black Dragons and Van Stoeffal (spelling) We learn that Van Stoeffal has requested that Aguiar speak about copyright issues and that he has been rebuffed. Enter...

    Ashida Kim. Who is brought out as an example of using Dante's name inappropriately. Frank Dux also is mentioned in passing as the thread turns to Fall River claiming that all the other organizations that claim black dragon status are not the real Black Dragons and are only using Dante's exploits. This part of the thread will allow the students of certain Chicago luminaries to come into the thread. These individuals tend to be on the whole well spoken, pleasant and informative.... look for "Vern, MIke" and others of this ilk.

    Finally we have Billy Aguiar saying he is the survivor, and it has to be said that his credability to claim such is percieved as almost comical: this man looks out of condition, does not present any recent videos of practice, nor any students (more on that in a moment), and only wants to claim the name because of his father's affilitation to Dante. His claim is countered by an international organization full of practicing martial artists, with meetings & events held regularly. Credability is really never established in either camp.

    We also learn that a good deal of Floyd Webb's work has involved speaking to these Black Dragons and that many of these individuals had a training relationship to Dante in Chicago, a few of them were part of the event precipitated by the dojo storming.

    C) The Creeden Clan: Up to this point and subsequent we are introduced to "Jawney" a character from the area of Massachussetts where Dante came to stay. Jawney it turns out is the son of Creeden Senior, a martial artist, journalist, soldger and... perhaps a man with connections! Creeden senior does not make an actual appearance on the thread but it has been determined that he was a legitimate and constructive presence... his son on the other hand was to become the central villian on the thread.
    It is brought to bear that Creeden junior enabled the deal with Aguiar to be compromised, that he egged Aguiar junior on into an unwinnable fight with Floyd ( the court case was predictable), and that he creates a whole cast of alliases with such colorful names as Matt Kiley, Timey, etc. There are allegations that Creeden made calls to Coach Barron's elder mother and Creeden's Blog becomes a rallying point for people who are less than happy with the Dante thread on bullshido and Floyd.... all five of them.

    At this point people like John Patricio, an intelligent and thoughful childhood friend of Billy Aguiar are being ridiculed by Creeden junior. The issue is always with Aguiar, one of betrayal. Aguiarr, at this point in the thread along with Creeden, has a picture painted where he stands alone uncomprimising while others try to betray Dante and take his life works... But alas there is on the thread little sympathy for this song and dance. Aguiar put out no film, no book and no school showing that he continued this tradition.. Aguiar is subsequently percieved on the thread at this point as trying to dismantle the work of Floyd and Creeden is seen as an enabler for his efforts. People will call Creeden on not even showing up for court dates to support his supposed pal Billy Aguiar. Creeden junior will claim that Billy is not his friend here and that he has his own reasons. In a word the situation becomes confusing...

    We now have aliases of Creeden claiming legal precedents, Sam Browning comes in to comment on these occasionally, we have people from the Black Dragons commenting, coach Barron states his point of view and the thread looks like it is achieving a point of diminishing returns. During this time the thread is moved out of the investigation section on Bullshido as it achieves critical mass and starts to eat at itself, collapse under the weight of it's own absurdity.

    d) Ymas here we come!!

    Moving this thread to the comedy section has what was perhaps, an unintended consequence: namely the thread picks up new life. As more people start to comment we have the introduction of new theatrics, new hyperbole, alais no real new developments... the thread seems to understand that the court date is ground zero.

    e) Chris piescala was a student of a man who ran in the same circles as Dante. Chris had been suggesting to Floyd such things as "not to go to Fall River", whom to speak with, and some of the more nefarious Dante connections to be probed. We learn that Creeden junior and Chris have a visceral exchange in which they basically agree to a fight to the death... at some point they begin to realize that they are both privy to information about Dante that is in their minds exclusive. Chris winds up casting aspersions on Floyd's motivations and much hillarity ensues. Chris will eventually go to Fall River and consumate this relationship with the Creedens but in the meantime on the thread he argues that essentially "I know what my teacher told me and it is the same as John shared with me... we both understood that only we could know those things." With this declaration Chris becomes a seond prong to the Creeden attack.

    Chris claims that Floyd is lazy, indolent and does not appreciate his help.... it is determined on the thread that Chris is grandiose, thinks his information is more important to Floyd than its actual value, and some suspect that Creeden junior may be enabling him as he did Aguiar junior.

    So we have challenges made, including Floyd eventually agreeing to fight Chris, and none of these challenges come to pass.

    Eventually after Frank Dux gets dragged into the thread on account of phone calls made and challenges issued, and more than a few others are subject to the same challenges and calls.... It is decided that Fall River has no intention of gong sauing anyone. Creeden is accused of being real polite when cornered and then talking **** when the person is at a distance. People settle into a quiet contempt for Chris, Jawney and the rest of the Fall River gang. Chris claims at many junctions that his faith and vocation has been threatened, Many posters angrily call him a hypocrite.

    But alas the court case was no suprise... Aguiar had to settle and let Floyd use, under fair use, most of what Floyd wanted to use in the first place and was not given two nickels to rub together. Fall River claims that other suits will come... which could mean more threads.

    Floyd claims to have progressed and to be ready to put some real work behind him. Floyd claims never to have been derailed by this travesty.

    Dante was the kind of person that had contraversy follow him around. Not suprising that this thread played out like it did.

    Note this is final edit with proper spellings Please sub this for the other post write up thanks

    dsimon
    This thread never was a high quality conversation - My friend vern Gilbert on the William Acquier thread.

    The fight in question having started over who owns which piece of rubble. Nicko1;2233174 On the Acquier Kim Fiasco slash thread.
      #6761
  2. PDA is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/02/2010 12:23am

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    And now time for something completely different !
    King without a crown
      #6762
  3. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/02/2010 10:55am

    Join us... or die
     

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    Keep the facebook stuff coming! will confirm friends later today.
    This thread never was a high quality conversation - My friend vern Gilbert on the William Acquier thread.

    The fight in question having started over who owns which piece of rubble. Nicko1;2233174 On the Acquier Kim Fiasco slash thread.
      #6763
  4. Delirium is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/02/2010 1:39pm

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    For the love of anything please don't

    Good afternoon,

    I'm someone that knows Cwuusy Bithchala in Chicago. I had the poor judgement to arrange with a neighbor of mine in the Flat Iron Arts Bulding ,where I reside, to let him teach martial arts in his large photography studio. He never took my neighbor up on this offer. I'm going to go out on a limb here and decide that that does not count as a martial arts school.

    A while back someone posted the name and number for my landlord to verify this "fact". I don't need an interogation into my lapse in sanity.

    I hope that no one calls my landlord to out me for associating with wack jobs. :bsflag:Let's all have a good laugh and not ruin the nice artists life.
      #6764
  5. PDA is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/02/2010 1:55pm

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    Just need to confirm something here, Is this the guy your talking about?

    King without a crown
      #6765
  6. Delirium is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/02/2010 1:57pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

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    on a good day
      #6766
  7. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/03/2010 4:28am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delirium View Post
    Good afternoon,

    I'm someone that knows Cwuusy Bithchala in Chicago. I had the poor judgement to arrange with a neighbor of mine in the Flat Iron Arts Bulding ,where I reside, to let him teach martial arts in his large photography studio. He never took my neighbor up on this offer. I'm going to go out on a limb here and decide that that does not count as a martial arts school.

    A while back someone posted the name and number for my landlord to verify this "fact". I don't need an interogation into my lapse in sanity.

    I hope that no one calls my landlord to out me for associating with wack jobs. :bsflag:Let's all have a good laugh and not ruin the nice artists life.
    Did he ever actually teach a class? anywhere in that building to your knowledge?

    thanks in advance. By the way looks like a beautiful building! We have a similar structure in my alma mater (my true nourishing mother) New York City and I looove those old skyscrapers. Christ on a stick come to think of it there is also a similar building here in San Francisco, I think Coppala owns it.
    This thread never was a high quality conversation - My friend vern Gilbert on the William Acquier thread.

    The fight in question having started over who owns which piece of rubble. Nicko1;2233174 On the Acquier Kim Fiasco slash thread.
      #6767
  8. Delirium is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/03/2010 7:38am

    Bullshido Newbie
     

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    No he did not
      #6768
  9. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/03/2010 12:32pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delirium View Post
    No he did not
    Interesting. That confirms statements made by members who went to visit the location. Thank you
    This thread never was a high quality conversation - My friend vern Gilbert on the William Acquier thread.

    The fight in question having started over who owns which piece of rubble. Nicko1;2233174 On the Acquier Kim Fiasco slash thread.
      #6769
  10. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/04/2010 2:17am

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    Epilogue

    Well imagine my suprise when I got the email from Floyd Webb Today detailing the eventual and inevitable....

    But beyond the Pieschala Fall River visit where he allegedly stole something(s) of value from ole man Creedon another issue looms large for this thread:

    SAM!!! stop the presses we will need 3 new threads because there are in fact 3 filmakers who are making films about Dante.

    Webb was tearful, his Berret was drooping on his Galoiuse' as he proclaimed to me "Monsieur Simon, what am I to do"? he then described the email he had found detailing the entry of two hitherto unknown filmmakers who had decided to throw their hat, err berret into the contest to make the defining Dante epich film.

    Well monsier Webb the least one can do in these troubling times is to evaluate the competition yes? as a famous film maker once observed... "one cannot calculate what one cannot see" yes monsier web? so without further ado let me introduce first:

    a) Monsier John Creedon' Ahh the land of Fall River a veritable breeding ground of literary triumph!!! we had chop chop borden who wrote with the axe, and more recently such story tellers as "legs and mumbles" and Johnny Buffalo mozzarela. Out of this land of culture and refinement we have John Creedon' a man who writes in the same short stattacco sentences as Hemingway... a man who makes his own conventions and spells words how he feels like it!!! Victor Hugo you may have wrote the longest sentence and been erudite yes? but Creedon's way of spelling is still unknown to the moderns... this Pablo Picasso type recluse has created a veritable "FAll River" written language which people like Billy the Beat Acguair use in their own commentary.

    Monsuer Creedon' is more than a poor man's Hemingway though. But alas Creedon' claims his magnum opus has been in fact stolen by his previous literary partner Chris Pescoleaux.

    b) a mon ami! such betrayal! but in the sweetness of love and war are we not allowed these indescretions? or as the french are fond of saying "Se la mere, se la gere le fem sonchere ..... (such is love such is war and the women are expensive.

    Alas dear Monseur Floyd hold my hand and we shall together face this decision and look at this illicit artiste' and see how he measures up. It may not be pleasant but let us resign ourselves.... Willaim Burroughs famously proclaimed during his trial in the accidental death of his wife "Your honor I am a homosexual I am a drug addict but I am not a murderer.... What is so fightening is that if Creedon' is right in his accusations then Pescoleaux is a drug addict which makes him share a characteristic with Burroughs!! oh dear Floyd!!! and if as Creedon' claims in the email one of these drugs is speed, well Sartre wrote "Being and Nothingness" on Speed!! he ogled his students on Speed while in the Latin quarter and teaching at the Sorbone'

    Let us just hope that Pascoleaux is not a homosexual for then he would share two characteristics with Burroughs....

    Finally we have a note from Matty's mom: she is very upset and asking Chrissy to please bring back Jawney's script... she says that when she baked cookies she gave all the boys, Matty Jawney Chrisie and timmy too, a script that was better than that mean ole Floyd's. She says that there was no reason to take Jawney's and is asking for Chrissy to give it back or she will be very angry and might not bake cookies at the next "throw darts at the Floyd target day in the treehouse."

    Sincerely

    Dsimon or ahhh dasiiimone'
    This thread never was a high quality conversation - My friend vern Gilbert on the William Acquier thread.

    The fight in question having started over who owns which piece of rubble. Nicko1;2233174 On the Acquier Kim Fiasco slash thread.
      #6770

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