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  1. Lob Sing is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/23/2009 1:24am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    but what is the point of this info to John Patricio
    Their are things going on here beyond the scope of you all.

    Creedon never really got back to me on that. That tells me a lot Chris... a lot.
    Thats why he doesnt want to talk with you Riley Hawkins.

    Why would he, Creeden. His lineage is common knowledge and historic. Every city had it bad asses Riley Hawkins Avengers Karate. Its like saying Kareem Allah New Jersey and the KA system. Please:badgrin:

    Everyone puts their teachers on Pedestals Every state has it tough guy.

    Just because someone does not want to talk, doesn't mean their with out knowledge. And thats probably why he doesn't want to talk to you. You learn in karate that you go into things with an open mind.

    You judgment is clouded Simon and Chris that tells me alot..... A Lot

    you don't know about Riley Hawkins
    Thats really is funny. With your stupidity to think that people arent versed in history. But tell me what Riley hawkings in baltimore has anything to do with this. Except for you. :new_2gunsAnd that tells me alot.

    Namely I am quite capable at playing the name game
    To defend Jawney for one second. I dont recollect Jawney never dropping any names. Your the one who started dropping names. Maybe their was alot of things going on , and you just didn't matter at all, no disrespect.

    I have my doubts about Falls River from how the game has been played out.
    And I bet they have their doubts about you, I can almost guarantee it.

    " theirs an old saying were I come from, dont tell how many people you knocked out tell me who......

    Knowing that Riley's **** was brought back to Asia (including by Korean special forces),
    AAAAAhhh the ROK'S " thats Republic of Korea " hard core. their always ROK READY.

    My point being this thousands I mean thousands of soldiers have that lineage. So get over Riley Hawkins. The 2nd infantry division has been their since the fifties. i been their and trained with them 18 months hardship tour. So since you've never walked the DMZ and you've never been to Korea. your out of your realm my friend.

    Your right your not at this table.:badgrin:

    So it strikes me as strange to say the least that Creedon is mum when I mention this info.
    Why should it be strange. Your from Baltimore and you trained with Riley Hawkins. And so did thousands of others. But what makes you special that he should talk to you.

    Did you get a Black belt from Riley Hawkins? A real one!!!!!! From this crew I have to ask that.

    At this point in all seriousness I don't know what table anyone is sitting at! Yesterday 09:22 PM
    your obviously not sitting at any of them.

    Dwyer was a yellow belt
    Oh **** Dwyer a yellow belt in 61, 62 ooops someone BB is fake.

    That trademark was obtained illegally by lying on the application
    Proof

    The BDFS and Dante are not the same thing
    1 john keehan his real name
    2 John dante his spiritual name
    3. Juan Raphael Dante his Spanish name
    4, count Dante was made from the end of the book. right the book was 1967 and then in the mail order. Its the persona that went with the add. changing the name from #3 Juan Raphael Dante a Spanish count right. COUNT DANTE the name went with the mail order.

    His death certificate was Juan Rapheal Dante. Floyd webb is looking for John Keehan no wonder why you cant find his body.

    I just proved your not sitting at the table. i just proved why you guys are stupid.

    :new_2guns Riley Hawkins please
    Last edited by Lob Sing; 4/23/2009 1:40am at .
      #1761
  2. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/23/2009 5:37am

    Join us... or die
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lob Sing View Post
    Their are things going on here beyond the scope of you all.



    Thats why he doesnt want to talk with you Riley Hawkins.

    Why would he, Creeden. His lineage is common knowledge and historic. Every city had it bad asses Riley Hawkins Avengers Karate. Its like saying Kareem Allah New Jersey and the KA system. Please:badgrin:

    Everyone puts their teachers on Pedestals Every state has it tough guy.

    Just because someone does not want to talk, doesn't mean their with out knowledge. And thats probably why he doesn't want to talk to you. You learn in karate that you go into things with an open mind.

    You judgment is clouded Simon and Chris that tells me alot..... A Lot



    Thats really is funny. With your stupidity to think that people arent versed in history. But tell me what Riley hawkings in baltimore has anything to do with this. Except for you. :new_2gunsAnd that tells me alot.



    To defend Jawney for one second. I dont recollect Jawney never dropping any names. Your the one who started dropping names. Maybe their was alot of things going on , and you just didn't matter at all, no disrespect.



    And I bet they have their doubts about you, I can almost guarantee it.

    " theirs an old saying were I come from, dont tell how many people you knocked out tell me who......



    AAAAAhhh the ROK'S " thats Republic of Korea " hard core. their always ROK READY.

    My point being this thousands I mean thousands of soldiers have that lineage. So get over Riley Hawkins. The 2nd infantry division has been their since the fifties. i been their and trained with them 18 months hardship tour. So since you've never walked the DMZ and you've never been to Korea. your out of your realm my friend.

    Your right your not at this table.:badgrin:



    Why should it be strange. Your from Baltimore and you trained with Riley Hawkins. And so did thousands of others. But what makes you special that he should talk to you.

    Did you get a Black belt from Riley Hawkins? A real one!!!!!! From this crew I have to ask that.



    your obviously not sitting at any of them.



    Oh **** Dwyer a yellow belt in 61, 62 ooops someone BB is fake.



    Proof



    1 john keehan his real name
    2 John dante his spiritual name
    3. Juan Raphael Dante his Spanish name
    4, count Dante was made from the end of the book. right the book was 1967 and then in the mail order. Its the persona that went with the add. changing the name from #3 Juan Raphael Dante a Spanish count right. COUNT DANTE the name went with the mail order.

    His death certificate was Juan Rapheal Dante. Floyd webb is looking for John Keehan no wonder why you cant find his body.

    I just proved your not sitting at the table. i just proved why you guys are stupid.

    :new_2guns Riley Hawkins please

    And that seals the deal, though nice try, its good you learned a little bit about the man... even if it is a simple Google search! I am referring to Riley not out of respect Jawney... and not as it relates to me and his student who taught me for the better part of many years... and I am touched you Googled him.... its a start but it won;t tell you much Jawney any more than Googling Dante' would tell you about what he really did with Triase information.

    No Riley did something SPECIFIC you guys would know about if you really knew what the **** you were talking about and you therefore quite obviously don't... It is something obvious and has nothing to do with being a badass or anything like that.... John Cole might know BTW. Some guys know and some guys don't kind of like that proverbial "Tablou de VIP" haha.

    Unfortunately you can't Google it Jawney... Oh well! Maybe you guys are at the wrong table after all.... :happy7: Point being might not want to belittle others as though your knowledge is all that... by the way if Chris and/or you want to know what I am talking about (What Riley did.... Jawney, and how it would have affected Triase and Dante I will be glad to tell you, as I basically like you Jawny and Chris seems like a good guy as well.)

    Floyd knows about it cause I told him some time ago.... being that it is quite important and integral to many things that happened in America with karate.

    So please behave, do not be disrespectful and ask nicely... its not like i have not hinted to you for some time in previous conversations that Riley did something that anyone or any group claiming to be the man the one should know about! I think you misunderstood and thought I was trumpeting Sensei Riley for my own ego gratification so let me say... no. I don't roll like that... I am nothing but a midget who has always had big feet... that allow me to stand on the shoulders of those who are truly great and able. BUt I have enough of a brain to let me understand when those who have impacted the game figure into the equation. And conversely when those who are trying to claim they know are missing something that is vital to the game. So Jawney and Chris for that matter... all the smoke, mirrors, personal associations, etc in the world are interesting but mere footnotes to the type of innovations that truly affected Ghetto Ryu and made it a force to be reckoned with in the martial arts world.
      #1762
  3. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/23/2009 6:21am

    Join us... or die
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ma_guy View Post
    None taken,
    I wanted to point out John was just a guy people treat like a "Comic Book".
    No real mystery to him himself; but the "social milieu" as one I know put it grew forum that group it taking center stage in this forum. Ashida Kim is irrelevant in terms over all as the afore mentioned person. Yet they all claim to secretly connected.

    It is most like Creeden himself that noted "a documentary on John Timothy Keehan: Not all the other that are trying to cash in because they happen to be round. Lots of people were are around John.

    So if that is the context, is it now wonder that some may take offense to the comments that casually get flung about? If that is not the context I for one was misled & would walked away .. no, never gotten involved in the first place.

    It was a small group that all knew each other. So it needs to be treated with respect to a dead human being not a point of debate.

    It was aimed at the lack of respect & ignorance of the topic at hand that prevents the major players from talking.

    I wasn't aimed at anybody just to set the tone a bit.

    I see all the static as people including the waters & giving me headaches. This subject could be quite large and scope creep tends to set in; I see it a s a disservice who want actual provable factual information. So I looked up a couple names and posted what they had to say.

    You should contact me via phone, some of the points you mention I can provide you plenty more back ground on. For instance you mention Korea; I am Ji Do Kwan there was no such thing as Tae Kwon Do when I started .. So it is important to know who the actual players were John Keehan was one.

    So if it is the definition of the truth this stuff is relevant.
    Like i said just call me I'll tlk no cloak and dagger. But there is plenty of it..
    Here's on since you mention the Koreans. FYI - Chung Do Kwan is the kwan taught to us troops special operators in Vietnam but I am sure you knew that so here is a bit more.


    http://www.worldjidokwan.com/history_index.htm
    "HISTORY OF JIDOKWAN

    While in Korea last July (1998), I was looking through some old issue of Taekwondo magazines at the Sang Moo Sa store on Kukkiwon-Gil (Kukkiwon Street), just down the hill, past the main gate from Kukkiwon. In the Korean language magazine "World Taekwondo", August 1997 edition, I found this interview with my Great-Grandmaster Lee, Chong Woo of the Jidokwan. Here is a rough translation of the article for those interested. Jidokwan was one of the five original Kwans and "Root to the birth of modern Taekwondo ." Al Cole

    Roots to the birth of modern Taekwondo - is Jidokwan

    By Chong Woo Lee"
    Indeed.

    Here in this area it was "Moo Duk Kwan" which was characterized as a Korean art, very aggressive, very linear and with about 5 clubs in the Washington, Baltimore area. It was traditional Korean fighting arts... but as you point out, and what I am dovetailing upon, is that it was seldom if ever referred to as Tae Kwon Do.

    Point being that what was referred to as Tai Kwon Do was the commercial schools operated by Koreans and which were not fighting clubs and were characterized by commercial success, big enrollments, kid classes and... get this Chris! by people from other clubs (including Moo Duk Kwan) being approached and either recruited to fight as a ringer or bribed to stay away from particular tournaments. I can vouch for this from personal experience.

    Later Tang Soo Do made an appearance but it was always peripheral. Ineresting enough the Korean special forces guys ( I think they were the black tigers) who came en mass to train with Riley and in some of the Moo Duk Kwan clubs, were more familiar with the Bong Ju line of Hwang... from when he (Bong)was trianing mercenaries like M Enchantes? that is a guess, Bong Ju was rumored to be a banger.... though take that with a grain of salt. You of course know (from the arts you list) that the Hwang stuff via the Hapkido stuff all via the Diato Ryu AikiJutsu stuff came in the art before the cryptic political associations that made it seem like Tae Kwon Do was the Korean traditional arts.

    What I know about this subject Chris is that what you call the Jidokwan, and or, the chung Do was known to me as the Moo Duk Kwan. These guys were distinguished because back then if you were a banger people would not assume you were a Korean stylist.... with the exception of the Moo Duk Kwan guys who could fight. Like you say these guys were prior to Tae Kwon Do and the Korean special forces knew of them and sought them, along with Riley and select others out, to train with.

    I do understand that these associations were part of the formation of what came later... its why i mention Riley to Jawney haha! There were more than a few guys who did things that people should know about because they are history and not yet recorded. The major players have to decide at some point that the clock is ticking and that posterity calls...

    not my place to say who they should speak to but somoene anyone with a pen and a need to write ot down as spoken preferably!
      #1763
  4. Lob Sing is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/23/2009 8:26am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    its good you learned a little bit about the man... even if it is a simple Google search
    Ya Jawney knows nothing he is nothing. His father, John cole and other they didnt teach him nothing right. Grow up.

    and I am touched you Googled him
    Like I'm touch that you can google Keehan. Thats were your info stops.

    No Riley did something SPECIFIC you guys would know about if you really knew what the **** you were talking about and you therefore quite obviously don't
    And what was that Einstein, did he put wooden dicks on darby horses or what. Everybody master is something great.

    Maybe you guys are at the wrong table after all....
    No were at the right one your the one who is not sitting at one.

    Floyd knows about it cause I told him some time ago
    read your letter on his blog, one word BORING.

    I think you misunderstood and thought I was trumpeting Sensei Riley for my own ego gratification so let me say
    Why bring him up, It has no bearing here.

    Ghetto Ryu and made it a force to be reckoned with in the martial arts world.
    I know some ghetto ryu, it consists of a bar of soap and a brillo pad.

    And conversely when those who are trying to claim they know are missing something that is vital to the game.
    The only thing that made sense, pertaining to Dante you and your merry men know nothing........

    Did you get a Black belt from Riley Hawkins? A real one!!!!!! From this crew I have to ask that.
    answer the question, your ducking the question!!!!!!!!!!!
      #1764
  5. ma_guy is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/23/2009 9:24am


     Style: Ji Do Kwan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ji Do Kwan & Moo Duk Kwan were the two major players that told folks "No Tae Soo Do sounds to Japanese" (yeah yeah I know about Shotokan's role). The thought was "We a more nationalst sounding name so Kwon it was. The Kwans that backed "Tae Soo Do" more or less wound up on the "cutting room Floor".

    I used the word "nationalistic" for a reason as now we would have to discuss Korea pre-1945 and the Russo-Japanese ware & the Japanese annexation of Korea. Which naturally will lead to the "Amur River Society" & the "Dark Ocean Society. I took Daitō-ryū Aiki-jūjutsu at Tori Station & Camp Foster in Okinawa Japan just to clear that up. My Sensei, I think he was a 6th but we never wore rank. The belts were White, Brown, Black. He didn't like the brown belt but joked that looked better than a dirty white belt.

    For those who aren't following me, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aikijutsu Important names there. I encourage to do your own research; if you ask me or expect me to post it. My response is sign up for class and learn right. I gotta eat too ;-)

    All I'm gonna say buy the movie or book I already gave that information to somebody.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dsimon3387 View Post
    No Riley did something SPECIFIC you guys would know about if you really knew what the **** you were talking about and you therefore quite obviously don't... It is something obvious and has nothing to do with being a badass or anything like that.... John Cole might know BTW. Some guys know and some guys don't kind of like that proverbial "Tablou de VIP" haha.
    Ok you got me .. not enough detail to hazard a guess from the top of my head. BUT, if you told Floyd that's his information.

    On the other hand if I follow my own ego. Which most of us martial artists have more than enough of. I'd check into my note books or contact John Cole.

    I can tell you an awful lot on Chicago and it's role in TKD. Which REALLY came to a head in the 70's and ending (ok it like this forum never ends) in 1988 when TKD made it into the Olympics. I'm still friends with a Korean the took home a Gold for Korea in TKD and even got to hold it.

    Maybe were not friends though, I did after all keep custom and bring a bottle of Soju ;-)

    My postings previous were never meant to be adversarial. Actually I was hoping you'd call me just to talk about the Koreans. That is my bread and butter; I know it would be interesting.

    You mentioned "Tang Soo Do". Tang as in the Chinese dynasty. Soo as in Hand. Do as in "Art, Way or method of".

    So since this is a public forum and you kinda busted some chops; me by proxy I am honor bound to "tag ya back".

    Chuck Norris (USKA) as I'm sure you know knew Tang Soo Do at, I want to say Kunsan AB Korea. I was a Osan a couple times but not permanent. Who took him under his wing to make him as good as he was? Why is his name so rarely mentioned.

    I double checked http://www.bohans-family.com/sensei-...ls_b/walls.htm didn't see it there either.

    That's about all I'll say on that history. I'd rather people signed up for class ;-)

    FOR THE RECORD: No I'm not saying anything here to defend Creeden. I just know the guy & people keep using my name.
    Last edited by ma_guy; 4/23/2009 9:42am at .
      #1765
  6. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/23/2009 9:30am

    Join us... or die
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And what was that Einstein, did he put wooden dicks on darby horses or what. Everybody master is something great.




    Why bring him up, It has no bearing here.



    I know some ghetto ryu, it consists of a bar of soap and a brillo pad.






    answer the question, your ducking the question!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]



    What was that? You want to know what Riley did? why don't you ask Floyd he knows!

    No bearing huh? Jawney stay away fromthe koolade you are really putting your foot in your mouth brother! Take a few breaths. The things you say in this post may bite you on the ass later on "Lob Sing" haha.

    Being disrespectful is a confirmation that you are a bit depsperate right now... relax man you don't need to resort to that type of behavoir. It reflects more on you and your lineage when you do that would be my one caution to you in this regard.

    When have I ever ducked a question about my rank? generationally I am in the same position as you guys... in my forties taught by one of the master's top students, specifically my teacher Willie Ben was a fifth Dan under Riley Hawkins, Sensei Ben was a Kumite and Breaking champion. My rank under him was the highest rank he could give me.... a nidan. Much More relevant: I was awarded entry into his tong...

    That distinction, the mark of the assasin, is much more relevant as far as I am concerned for personal reasons much like the type of issues that Chris raises from time to time. To put it in perspective it makes me one of a handful of students.

    Ask nicely Jawney... whenever you are ready to stop the abusive language and other nonsense... or keep going it makes no difference to me, as the entertainment value is first rate either way. Again I would caution you, since low IQ seems to run in those parts that: WHEN YOU ARE DISRISPETFUL IT REFLECTS ON YOU! Just something to file away brother...
      #1766
  7. ma_guy is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/23/2009 10:16am


     Style: Ji Do Kwan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In fairness I've never kept mine secret nor who I am, talk to, know, respect. I've done my best to leave my personal feelings at the door.

    Dsimon who was the Instructor taught you this?
    "What I know about this subject Chris is that what you call the Jidokwan, and or, the chung Do was known to me as the Moo Duk Kwan."

    That is incorrect.
    Probably memory or when you learned it.

    The origoninal Kwans were Chung Do Kwan, Choson Yun Moo Kong Soo (Jidokwan), Moo Duk Kwan, Chang Moo Kwan, Song Moo Kwan, Oh Do Kwan, Kang Duk Kwan, Han Moo Kwan & Jung Do Kwan

    Ji Do Kwan & Chung Do Kwan still argue over who was first. But politics and my aforementioned story on where Tae Kwan Do came from and why "there's one on every corner" explain this.

    Want proof of my claims? I'll show not post all my certificates, pictures name it. To anybody who is a student or attends a seminar.

    In Korea you can actually go to college at Yong-In University and get a TKD degree & and be a WTF master upon completion .. more to what I was explaining about it being a national sport akin to baseball. Hence the govenment Kwan unification movement.

    For his 4th Dan and Masters Ji Do Kwan said "you have to do something we wouldn't". So He broke 202 clay & enameled bricks with his head, I donated the footage to Floyd because as my instructor also knew John maybe he could use it. Maybe he will maybe he won't. But it's not the only copy and it's ovious the bricks aren't fake or tricks.

    I've broken them & they are tough!

    For the record I was my instructor's top student. I have signed papers. I've stayed at the man's house, was with him on his death bed, when he became a police chaplain; I know his whole family & friends and was always introduced to ever body as "This is Chris Pieschala my #1 student and non-blood student." I am also his heir to his martial arts legacy.

    That's much different than teaching with somebody's top students.

    So yes, one could safely assume I know a thing or two. And one more time, I can prove it. but this isn't the correct forum for that.

    Oh mon Dieu! Les personnes etre a table!

    Sincerely,
    Master C. C. Pieschala

    Addendum:
    But the demo I gave a the occult bookstore right out WDFS I gave the audience all the tricks and then some of the more modern ones. They inspected the brick saw the home depot receipt. They saw something REAL. And it hurt like hell! Did you know they put chunks of granite in those?

    The self defense was a hoot. Louvel owner of the store is a Green Dragon was the attacker for the demo. (Hmm, Occult & Green Dragon .. I picked the location)

    The self defense demo & private lesson. Was fun.

    You'd have loved to see the people jump when Louvel pulled the planted CO2 Pistol on me. Which using one of John's teachings (and some Hap Ki Do) took control reversed the arm and fired several shots into Lovel's gut.

    I wish it was on film! Just to see the audience jump again and agan. Many thought it was real. It wasn't but the demo was as fars saftery would allow.
    Last edited by ma_guy; 4/23/2009 10:56am at .
      #1767
  8. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/23/2009 10:23am

    Join us... or die
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ma_guy View Post
    Ji Do Kwan & Moo Duk Kwan were the two major players that told folks "No Tae Soo Do sounds to Japanese" (yeah yeah I know about Shotokan's role). The thought was "We a more nationalst sounding name so Kwon it was. The Kwans that backed "Tae Soo Do" more or less wound up on the "cutting room Floor".

    I used the word "nationalistic" for a reason as now we would have to discuss Korea pre-1945 and the Russo-Japanese ware & the Japanese annexation of Korea. Which naturally will lead to the "Amur River Society" & the "Dark Ocean Society. I took Daitō-ryū Aiki-jūjutsu at Tori Station & Camp Foster in Okinawa Japan just to clear that up. My Sensei, I think he was a 6th but we never wore rank. The belts were White, Brown, Black. He didn't like the brown belt but joked that looked better than a dirty white belt.

    For those who aren't following me, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aikijutsu Important names there. I encourage to do your own research; if you ask me or expect me to post it. My response is sign up for class and learn right. I gotta eat too ;-)

    All I'm gonna say buy the movie or book I already gave that information to somebody.



    Ok you got me .. not enough detail to hazard a guess from the top of my head. BUT, if you told Floyd that's his information.

    On the other hand if I follow my own ego. Which most of us martial artists have more than enough of. I'd check into my note books or contact John Cole.

    I can tell you an awful lot on Chicago and it's role in TKD. Which REALLY came to a head in the 70's and ending (ok it like this forum never ends) in 1988 when TKD made it into the Olympics. I'm still friends with a Korean the took home a Gold for Korea in TKD and even got to hold it.

    Maybe were not friends though, I did after all keep custom and bring a bottle of Soju ;-)

    My postings previous were never meant to be adversarial. Actually I was hoping you'd call me just to talk about the Koreans. That is my bread and butter; I know it would be interesting.

    You mentioned "Tang Soo Do". Tang as in the Chinese dynasty. Soo as in Hand. Do as in "Art, Way or method of".

    So since this is a public forum and you kinda busted some chops; me by proxy I am honor bound to "tag ya back".

    Chuck Norris (USKA) as I'm sure you know knew Tang Soo Do at, I want to say Kunsan AB Korea. I was a Osan a couple times but not permanent. Who took him under his wing to make him as good as he was? Why is his name so rarely mentioned.

    I double checked http://www.bohans-family.com/sensei-...ls_b/walls.htm didn't see it there either.

    That's about all I'll say on that history. I'd rather people signed up for class ;-)

    FOR THE RECORD: No I'm not saying anything here to defend Creeden. I just know the guy & people keep using my name.

    I know you are not defending Creedon. I am actually usually kidding with him, although his disrespect for Riley is a bit disturbing... but I am just busting his hump!

    For example I brought up Riley to show him he does not know as much as he thinks... I will briefly explain what Riley did, it is one of those things that could be a book for him one day if people would give him credit where it is due! thing is guys who were around know that what I am saying is true... so people do know.

    Riley changed the way Okinawan stylists and many others fight from the basic front legged (what we calledZen Kibidachi) position. He revolutionized the way people fight with the art. To truly understand the magnitude of his work look at Jawney's blogg and the picture of Triase (with the other guy) notice the orientation of his punching hand? People used to fight with the shoulders squared, left hand down right fist chambered at the hip. Nobody could attack with anything but a front kick or a reverse punch! Riley took the shoulders put them at a 45 degree angle, the chambered fist went to the plexis the front hand went to an extended position (back fist from the side). Guys like Jope Lewis? Chuck Norris? Lets just say that Riley'S innovations gave them the opportunity to develop their game in a way that they could never have without them.

    Here is what happened: Riley went on a tear and started beating people up. Now the Okinawan guys actually took his stuff back to asia and it was incprporated into the art... that is what makes it so special. Before Riley in Okinawan and Japanese karate there was no techniques from the side... if you fought you fought out of the cat stance! (like Dante's "T").

    You have to see the extent of his stuff to appreciate how much it changed things. Ridgehands became prominant, low kicks and the revers punch no loger had to come from the hip.

    Guys who were around know Riley was the original guy in this regard. He was the one who made it so in Asia so that in essence he changed the way Okinawan karate was taught all over the world and made it a force to be reckoned with.

    Compare this to the guys who sterilized karate by creating kick boxing... Chris I never saw anyone bouncing up and down when we were fighting! that is just not karate to me. My point is that some innovations are good and some are best left on the drawing board. I will try to make a video of Riley's concepts and give you, Jawney and anyone else here a copy to have a look at it in a few weeks. It is great stuff and a lot of guys don't realize why they fight the way they do is because of Riley!
      #1768
  9. Dsimon3387 is offline

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    san francisco
    Posts
    3,079

    Posted On:
    4/23/2009 10:31am

    Join us... or die
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ma_guy View Post
    In fairness I've never kept mine secret nor who I am, talk to, know, respect. I've done my best to leave my personal feelings at the door.

    Dsimon who was the Instructor taught you this?
    "What I know about this subject Chris is that what you call the Jidokwan, and or, the chung Do was known to me as the Moo Duk Kwan."

    That is incorrect.
    Probably memory or when you learned it.

    The origoninal Kwans were Chung Do Kwan, Choson Yun Moo Kong Soo (Jidokwan), Moo Duk Kwan, Chang Moo Kwan, Song Moo Kwan, Oh Do Kwan, Kang Duk Kwan, Han Moo Kwan & Jung Do Kwan

    Ji Do Kwan & Chung Do Kwan still argue over who was first. But politics and my aforementioned story on where Tae Kwan Do came from and why "there's one on every corner" explain this.

    Want proof of my claims? I'll show not post all my certificates, pictures name it. To anybody who is a student or attends a seminar.

    In Korea you can actually go to college at Yong-In University and get a TKD degree & and be a WTF master upon completion .. more to what I was explaining about it being a national sport akin to baseball. Hence the govenment Kwan unification movement.

    Oh mon Dieu! Les personnes etre a table!

    Sincerely,
    Master C. C. Pieschala
    No man I believe you. I only know the guys I ran into from events where we fought each other I don't know the history of the Korean arts except that I do know your statements about the nationalism and politics are true, that is a fact that is historically true with no caveats. What was interesting to me was how the Moo Duk Kwan guys were obviously a different Korean karate group
      #1769
  10. ma_guy is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    761

    Posted On:
    4/23/2009 10:59am


     Style: Ji Do Kwan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok now you gotta call me!
    "Guys like Jope Lewis? Chuck Norris? Lets just say that Riley'S innovations gave them the opportunity to develop their game in a way that they could never have without them."

    I may have something for you maybe not but if my guess is right you want to know!

    I'll PM you my number.
      #1770

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