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  1. GoldenJonas is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    2/15/2008 12:32am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KempoFist
    Amazing how after years of bashing crapplers and MMA wannabes passing themselves off as credible instructors with their inexperienced shoddy instruction; and suddenly we're supposed to approve of such acts because someone well respected condones it. I don't engage in idol-worship, so sorry that rationale doesn't exactly sway me.
    Once again you are wrong. You must have missed this in my post on the other thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by GJ
    3. Robby said that if a guy walked in off of the street and said he wanted to learn to grapple and/or BJJ he would not hesitate to say that there are much much better BJJ and grappling schools in the Memphis area and that the ground game taught at his school is VERY VERY basic, i.e., "this is the mount", "this is the guard", etc, etc.
  2. Pandinha is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/15/2008 12:33am

    supporting memberhall of famestaff
     Style: Muay Thai & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Actually, I really don't care. No matter what is posted, what assurances given, you aren't changing your mind, or have a mind open to give the benefit of a doubt.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
    "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".
  3. Pandinha is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/15/2008 12:35am

    supporting memberhall of famestaff
     Style: Muay Thai & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenJonas
    Once again you are wrong. You must have missed this in my post on the other thread....
    He "missed" it, because his mind is already made up.

    You can't change his point of view, it's about the same level as a suicide bomber.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
    "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".
  4. Ke?poFist is offline
    Ke?poFist's Avatar

    Enforcer of Northeast Anti-Silliness Department Inc.

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    Posted On:
    2/15/2008 12:40am

    supporting member
     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenJonas
    Once again you are wrong. You must have missed this in my post on the other thread....
    That is in reference to one instructor, and one instructor who was speaking specifically of those seeking exclusive grappling or Jiu-Jitsu instruction. I'm sure he wouldn't send prospective students down to the more qualified MMA gym across town.
    Knowing is not enough, you must apply...
    ...Willing is not enough you must do
    ~Bruce Lee

  5. Pandinha is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/15/2008 12:54am

    supporting memberhall of famestaff
     Style: Muay Thai & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Stay on topic please.

    Thanks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
    "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".
  6. Askari is offline

    The Bottom Brick

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    Posted On:
    2/15/2008 8:24am


     Style: BJJ, Ju-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KempoFist
    There is nothing wrong with teaching these seminars, but they are encouraging these MMA newbies to go off now and teach others. What other credible school encourages students of theirs with less than a week of training to now go and open their own schools and teach others? Where is the rationale? This is unforgivable, and would not be tolerated around here if any other school or organization were implementing such a program.
    Hi KempoFist,

    I dont see anywhere in here that they are certifying complete newbs to go out and open completely new schools.

    It seems to be a way for an existing certified instructor to add a certification for a low level program. If someone then went and opened their own MMA club, I think they would be dropped by ATT fairly quickly.
    "Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"
  7. Teh El Macho is offline
    Teh El Macho's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    2/15/2008 8:45am

    supporting member
     Style: creonte on hiatus

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    One way I see this played by TMA schools being certified is by incoorporating these very basics in their kiddie programs, as well as a way for an existing group of adult students to train while still being part of the school. It is a gradual transition.

    Rather than getting a BJJer/MMAer to teach a class completely separate from the rest of the school while the instructors are clueless about what's being taught, they go through the program, establish a self-study group or integrate a basic course into their existing class schedule, while getting the benefit of a prepared curriculum, supervision by ATT and ATT pro fighters going there regularly.

    I see the people who would be joining this program (and going through the three 8-hour sessions) as TMAers that already bang (either in amateour MMA events or kickboxing events).

    No LARPer would subject himself to complete 24 hours of intensive MMA training in a three day period. People claim that things would be different if it were a school other than ATT. I say this would be different if the prospective n00bs being certified were of a wrestling background.
    Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

    My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

    New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

    t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

    The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
  8. PirateJon is offline
    PirateJon's Avatar

    and good morning to you too

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    Posted On:
    2/15/2008 10:14am

    supporting member
     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    wrestling background wins again!


    I just cannot get over this "not for the ring" ****. Is it for the str33t then?

    Martial arts are for fighting. This isn't.
  9. Ke?poFist is offline
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    Enforcer of Northeast Anti-Silliness Department Inc.

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    Posted On:
    2/15/2008 10:20am

    supporting member
     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Askari
    Hi KempoFist,

    I dont see anywhere in here that they are certifying complete newbs to go out and open completely new schools.

    It seems to be a way for an existing certified instructor to add a certification for a low level program. If someone then went and opened their own MMA club, I think they would be dropped by ATT fairly quickly.
    In the other thread, there were numerous examples posted of these certified instructors not implementing what they learned into their current MA curriculum, but rather were opening up new "MMA" classes that are splashed with the ATT logo.

    The certification and what it means is no where to be seen for the undiscerning consumer, and unless they happened to read this thread, even after further query they probably would still coming away thinking the certified instructor was someone worth taking an MMA class from - unless of course these certified instructors say, "no really man, I suck, trust me I've just started myself."

    They are not taking the course for the benefit of their students, they are taking it to cash in MMA popularity by getting empty credentials that give them a free pass to crapple and teach from inexperience.

    To contrast, some newbie Jiu-Jitsu or MMA student going down to his local rec center and sharing what he learned with some of the guys there is fine. But now he's going to start charging money for it, and proclaiming to be a certified instructor with his week or so of training? I don't think we'd be seeing nearly as much of a debate about this here.
    Knowing is not enough, you must apply...
    ...Willing is not enough you must do
    ~Bruce Lee

  10. Kokujin is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2008 9:57pm


     Style: BJJ(blue)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Damn..on one hand I see ATT, one of the greatest mma camps in world, great record of fighters and trainers, top of the line facilities and people that will probably forget more about bjj and mma then I will ever know...but still, it sounds and looks something like an atempt to cash in with the mma fad rushing across the US.

    Even with the a certain degree of quality control that Master Liborio will undoubtely bring to the game, from what I read across the bord, the program allows people to instruct others in the intricacies off mma after a 3 day period, may it be "hardcore" or just informative. Even if it has the ATT stamp of aproval, it still sounds and looks like something straight out of a "Mcdoism" rule book in the sense that you are entitling non-mma instructors, with no serious background, to instruct others with techniques that you normally learn on a 6 month period in ANY mma/bjj school(one takedowns, a couple of subs, a couple of strikes, etc) .

    For instance, bjj has been around here (Portugal) for 15 years, mma for 5/6 years, but every school has a solid background in bjj, with several black belts who competed in mma back in brazil, added to muay thai/kickboxing fighters and a whole lot of love for the art. They aren't your run of the mill TKD/Kenpo Karate school adding a 3 day "glorified seminar" to their curriculum...but they share a certain "try and error"factor in building their training... maybe like BTT and ATT did in their humble beginings.

    Only time will tell how this will play out, as a true mma and ATT fan, I hope this might be some sort of seed planting for a new age of mma training and pratice in the US...but if not, they should be called to reason as everyone that builds something out of McDoism and othe pratices.

    Pandinha, you are a loyal and proud student, someone that definitely is wearing the ATT colors, but keep a open mind to what may or may not be a "cash cow". Like I said, only time will tell, but for now, I'm "satisfied" with the explanations of Master Liborio and his all around good attitude in this situation. He has done far more then most of the subjects inquired in this forum have ever done when faced with acusations. Tell him to keep up the good work with his fighters!
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